1 00:00:16,080 --> 00:00:00,980 foreign 2 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:16,090 [Music] 3 00:00:24,090 --> 00:00:16,370 [Applause] 4 00:00:34,130 --> 00:00:24,100 [Music] 5 00:00:36,590 --> 00:00:34,140 welcome back to the UFO Rabbit Hole 6 00:00:38,510 --> 00:00:36,600 podcast I'm your host Kelly Chase 7 00:00:40,549 --> 00:00:38,520 I have a really fun episode for you 8 00:00:41,990 --> 00:00:40,559 today but before we get started I have 9 00:00:44,389 --> 00:00:42,000 just a couple of quick announcements 10 00:00:46,250 --> 00:00:44,399 first of all because I've gotten a ton 11 00:00:48,350 --> 00:00:46,260 of emails and messages about it I wanted 12 00:00:50,569 --> 00:00:48,360 to let you guys know that part two of 13 00:00:52,549 --> 00:00:50,579 The Waking Up Inside the cave series is 14 00:00:55,610 --> 00:00:52,559 coming it will be released on Thursday 15 00:00:57,170 --> 00:00:55,620 May 25th I apologize for the wait on 16 00:00:59,209 --> 00:00:57,180 that and thank you all so much for your 17 00:01:00,830 --> 00:00:59,219 patience this Series has been a real 18 00:01:02,450 --> 00:01:00,840 challenge in terms of researching and 19 00:01:04,609 --> 00:01:02,460 writing and it's really important to me 20 00:01:06,770 --> 00:01:04,619 that I nail it but I can't wait to share 21 00:01:07,969 --> 00:01:06,780 that with you soon secondly I wanted to 22 00:01:10,190 --> 00:01:07,979 let you all know that I've recently 23 00:01:12,109 --> 00:01:10,200 parted ways with the Ohio UFO Heritage 24 00:01:14,090 --> 00:01:12,119 conference there's no hard feelings 25 00:01:15,649 --> 00:01:14,100 there and I wish them all the best if 26 00:01:17,149 --> 00:01:15,659 you have any questions about the 27 00:01:19,310 --> 00:01:17,159 conference which is being rescheduled 28 00:01:23,210 --> 00:01:19,320 for September you can direct those 29 00:01:25,490 --> 00:01:23,220 questions to the ufofestival gmail.com 30 00:01:27,890 --> 00:01:25,500 and I'll put that info in the episode 31 00:01:29,090 --> 00:01:27,900 description today I have something a 32 00:01:31,190 --> 00:01:29,100 little different to share with you all 33 00:01:33,050 --> 00:01:31,200 I'll be spending the end of this week 34 00:01:35,690 --> 00:01:33,060 down at The Archives of the impossible 35 00:01:38,810 --> 00:01:35,700 conference at Rice University hosted by 36 00:01:40,490 --> 00:01:38,820 the inimitable Dr Jeffrey [\h__\h] and 37 00:01:42,649 --> 00:01:40,500 hopefully convincing Jeff to come on the 38 00:01:44,390 --> 00:01:42,659 podcast and next week I'll be taking 39 00:01:46,249 --> 00:01:44,400 some much needed time off around my 40 00:01:48,170 --> 00:01:46,259 birthday but I didn't want to leave you 41 00:01:50,569 --> 00:01:48,180 guys hanging for two weeks so this 42 00:01:52,130 --> 00:01:50,579 seemed like the perfect opportunity to 43 00:01:54,830 --> 00:01:52,140 bring in a guest that I've been dying to 44 00:01:56,569 --> 00:01:54,840 have on the show my friend Ryan Sprague 45 00:01:57,770 --> 00:01:56,579 of the phenomenal somewhere in the skies 46 00:01:59,810 --> 00:01:57,780 podcast 47 00:02:01,609 --> 00:01:59,820 now I'm sure that most of you who are 48 00:02:04,190 --> 00:02:01,619 listening are already familiar with Ryan 49 00:02:06,350 --> 00:02:04,200 and somewhere in the skies he's been a 50 00:02:07,969 --> 00:02:06,360 Mainstay in the community for years and 51 00:02:09,589 --> 00:02:07,979 the empathy thoughtfulness and 52 00:02:11,990 --> 00:02:09,599 professionalism that he brings to his 53 00:02:14,390 --> 00:02:12,000 work speaks for itself if you haven't 54 00:02:17,089 --> 00:02:14,400 checked out his podcast yet I definitely 55 00:02:19,250 --> 00:02:17,099 recommend it Ryan also just had a new 56 00:02:21,410 --> 00:02:19,260 book come out called stories from 57 00:02:24,229 --> 00:02:21,420 somewhere in the skies with a forward by 58 00:02:26,809 --> 00:02:24,239 Dr Diana Walsh basilka it's a collection 59 00:02:28,670 --> 00:02:26,819 of witness accounts of UFOs and I'm 60 00:02:31,070 --> 00:02:28,680 honored to have had my own encounters 61 00:02:33,290 --> 00:02:31,080 included in the book I've talked to you 62 00:02:36,050 --> 00:02:33,300 guys briefly in episode one about my 63 00:02:37,729 --> 00:02:36,060 first UFO sighting when I was 13 but I 64 00:02:40,610 --> 00:02:37,739 actually had another one when I was 21 65 00:02:42,890 --> 00:02:40,620 that was far more interesting that whole 66 00:02:45,890 --> 00:02:42,900 story can be found in Ryan's phenomenal 67 00:02:47,690 --> 00:02:45,900 new book alongside so many others you'll 68 00:02:49,430 --> 00:02:47,700 be able to find links to Ryan's book 69 00:02:50,690 --> 00:02:49,440 podcast and more in the episode 70 00:02:52,430 --> 00:02:50,700 description 71 00:02:54,830 --> 00:02:52,440 because I'm talking to a friend and 72 00:02:56,089 --> 00:02:54,840 fellow podcaster this conversation is 73 00:02:57,650 --> 00:02:56,099 much more personal than other 74 00:03:00,589 --> 00:02:57,660 conversations that I've shared with you 75 00:03:03,170 --> 00:03:00,599 I really hope you enjoy it here is my 76 00:03:05,270 --> 00:03:03,180 conversation with Ryan Sprague 77 00:03:06,890 --> 00:03:05,280 your new book stories from somewhere in 78 00:03:08,869 --> 00:03:06,900 the skies just came out and it's really 79 00:03:10,670 --> 00:03:08,879 special and I was also so honored to be 80 00:03:12,770 --> 00:03:10,680 included could you just talk a little 81 00:03:15,110 --> 00:03:12,780 bit about how this book came to be 82 00:03:16,610 --> 00:03:15,120 yeah absolutely you know I've been 83 00:03:19,729 --> 00:03:16,620 running the somewhere in the skies 84 00:03:22,490 --> 00:03:19,739 podcast since I think it was mid-2017 85 00:03:26,390 --> 00:03:22,500 when I started I had written a book in 86 00:03:28,250 --> 00:03:26,400 2016 that was pretty well received in 87 00:03:32,449 --> 00:03:28,260 the UFO Community but it didn't really 88 00:03:34,130 --> 00:03:32,459 move past that and I wanted to kind of I 89 00:03:36,649 --> 00:03:34,140 wanted to do something to continue the 90 00:03:39,649 --> 00:03:36,659 conversation I had in that book and that 91 00:03:41,690 --> 00:03:39,659 was a book about people and their UFO 92 00:03:43,190 --> 00:03:41,700 experiences I traveled around the 93 00:03:45,410 --> 00:03:43,200 country and interviewed people in all 94 00:03:47,869 --> 00:03:45,420 walks of life about having seen things 95 00:03:49,610 --> 00:03:47,879 in the sky they couldn't explain and 96 00:03:52,670 --> 00:03:49,620 that was kind of 97 00:03:54,589 --> 00:03:52,680 my ufology I guess if I want to put it 98 00:03:56,270 --> 00:03:54,599 that way you know there were there's 99 00:03:58,729 --> 00:03:56,280 always those people out there who are 100 00:04:01,130 --> 00:03:58,739 boots on the ground investigators and 101 00:04:03,170 --> 00:04:01,140 are trying to you know really do that 102 00:04:05,630 --> 00:04:03,180 Mulder and Scully thing out there and 103 00:04:08,030 --> 00:04:05,640 figure out what this stuff is where I 104 00:04:09,949 --> 00:04:08,040 was always drawn to the people who had 105 00:04:11,869 --> 00:04:09,959 the experiences I grew up as a 106 00:04:13,550 --> 00:04:11,879 playwright I was I'm a trained 107 00:04:16,250 --> 00:04:13,560 playwright actually I lived in New York 108 00:04:19,189 --> 00:04:16,260 City for 12 years writing and producing 109 00:04:21,530 --> 00:04:19,199 plays and movies and I was always 110 00:04:22,969 --> 00:04:21,540 attracted to characters obviously as a 111 00:04:25,310 --> 00:04:22,979 playwriter what what are people's 112 00:04:27,710 --> 00:04:25,320 motivations what obstacles do they face 113 00:04:30,170 --> 00:04:27,720 how do they overcome those and what 114 00:04:32,570 --> 00:04:30,180 changes them by the end of the play and 115 00:04:35,090 --> 00:04:32,580 I started to see that in the ufology 116 00:04:37,610 --> 00:04:35,100 work I was doing as well and UFO 117 00:04:40,610 --> 00:04:37,620 sighting can be a pinnacle moment in 118 00:04:42,650 --> 00:04:40,620 someone's life life-altering even so I 119 00:04:44,810 --> 00:04:42,660 said hey there we go use my playwriting 120 00:04:46,010 --> 00:04:44,820 skills put it into my ethology and 121 00:04:49,249 --> 00:04:46,020 contribute something new to the 122 00:04:51,770 --> 00:04:49,259 conversation so basically the book came 123 00:04:54,530 --> 00:04:51,780 out and I decided I'm going to continue 124 00:04:56,510 --> 00:04:54,540 it in podcast form but not only that I'm 125 00:04:58,370 --> 00:04:56,520 not just going to interview researchers 126 00:05:00,290 --> 00:04:58,380 or people like that I want to actually 127 00:05:02,570 --> 00:05:00,300 hear from the people I interviewed in 128 00:05:05,990 --> 00:05:02,580 the book and that's when I started a 129 00:05:07,070 --> 00:05:06,000 series called witness accounts and in 130 00:05:08,570 --> 00:05:07,080 the history of this somewhere in the 131 00:05:11,870 --> 00:05:08,580 skies podcast I think we're up to about 132 00:05:14,810 --> 00:05:11,880 28 or 29 volumes of witness accounts 133 00:05:16,909 --> 00:05:14,820 which is just incredible you know I mean 134 00:05:19,850 --> 00:05:16,919 I do five six seven stories in each 135 00:05:21,890 --> 00:05:19,860 volume so that's hundreds of people 136 00:05:25,790 --> 00:05:21,900 who've come forward to tell their UFO 137 00:05:27,710 --> 00:05:25,800 stories on the podcast and I decided you 138 00:05:30,890 --> 00:05:27,720 know what let's take it a step further 139 00:05:33,529 --> 00:05:30,900 let's take those Greatest Hits as I call 140 00:05:35,810 --> 00:05:33,539 it from the witness account series down 141 00:05:37,490 --> 00:05:35,820 put them in book form and that's where 142 00:05:39,710 --> 00:05:37,500 stories from somewhere in the skies 143 00:05:41,689 --> 00:05:39,720 ultimately came from of which you were a 144 00:05:43,670 --> 00:05:41,699 contributor to it was one of the top 50 145 00:05:46,370 --> 00:05:43,680 stories I've ever had submitted to the 146 00:05:48,290 --> 00:05:46,380 show so I have to thank you as well 147 00:05:50,870 --> 00:05:48,300 oh thank you I mean that was such a 148 00:05:53,870 --> 00:05:50,880 pleasure to do and I got such cool 149 00:05:56,330 --> 00:05:53,880 Outreach from people after doing that 150 00:05:57,290 --> 00:05:56,340 episode actually that was how I met a 151 00:05:58,850 --> 00:05:57,300 bunch of different people in the field 152 00:06:00,290 --> 00:05:58,860 who started reaching out and it was a 153 00:06:03,230 --> 00:06:00,300 really positive experience in a lot of 154 00:06:06,050 --> 00:06:03,240 ways I think there's so much power when 155 00:06:07,430 --> 00:06:06,060 you start to share your stories the 156 00:06:09,830 --> 00:06:07,440 connections that we're able to form when 157 00:06:11,210 --> 00:06:09,840 we do that are really meaningful so it 158 00:06:12,710 --> 00:06:11,220 was a wonderful thing to be a part of 159 00:06:15,590 --> 00:06:12,720 and I'm so happy to see it come to life 160 00:06:18,170 --> 00:06:15,600 in this way thank you thank you yes and 161 00:06:20,330 --> 00:06:18,180 I have honestly Kelly I mean it's a book 162 00:06:23,029 --> 00:06:20,340 by you it's a book by the people who 163 00:06:25,610 --> 00:06:23,039 contributed these stories I was kind of 164 00:06:28,430 --> 00:06:25,620 just you know the vessel the middleman 165 00:06:31,370 --> 00:06:28,440 as it were so I almost take issue with 166 00:06:34,189 --> 00:06:31,380 the book saying bye Ryan Sprague because 167 00:06:36,890 --> 00:06:34,199 it really is other people's stories I do 168 00:06:39,770 --> 00:06:36,900 include my own personal UFO sighting as 169 00:06:41,749 --> 00:06:39,780 well but yeah this truly is a book for 170 00:06:44,029 --> 00:06:41,759 the people who have had these 171 00:06:45,890 --> 00:06:44,039 experiences such as yourself and like 172 00:06:48,110 --> 00:06:45,900 you said finding commonalities and 173 00:06:50,090 --> 00:06:48,120 finding understanding with one another 174 00:06:51,830 --> 00:06:50,100 about what we could possibly be dealing 175 00:06:55,129 --> 00:06:51,840 with in our skies 176 00:06:57,230 --> 00:06:55,139 absolutely and speaking of your own UFO 177 00:06:58,969 --> 00:06:57,240 encounter the book does start with your 178 00:07:00,590 --> 00:06:58,979 own encounter when you were 12. would 179 00:07:03,050 --> 00:07:00,600 you mind sharing that briefly and also 180 00:07:07,490 --> 00:07:03,060 how it impacted you moving forward 181 00:07:10,249 --> 00:07:07,500 sure yeah so I had a sighting when I was 182 00:07:13,450 --> 00:07:10,259 12 years old like you mentioned in 1995 183 00:07:18,050 --> 00:07:13,460 was the year so we're talking like 184 00:07:21,350 --> 00:07:18,060 jinko jeans and Green Day and spiky hair 185 00:07:24,110 --> 00:07:21,360 Ryan and I was listening to Green Day on 186 00:07:26,450 --> 00:07:24,120 a Discman actually a portable CD player 187 00:07:28,010 --> 00:07:26,460 one day when I was on a fishing trip 188 00:07:30,670 --> 00:07:28,020 with my family we would take these like 189 00:07:32,930 --> 00:07:30,680 summer getaway trips in central New York 190 00:07:34,969 --> 00:07:32,940 and I would just listen to music and 191 00:07:37,550 --> 00:07:34,979 fish all day I absolutely loved it and 192 00:07:41,270 --> 00:07:37,560 it's her night and I reeled my line in 193 00:07:44,270 --> 00:07:41,280 and I saw something in the water and I 194 00:07:46,010 --> 00:07:44,280 was you know a little baffled by that it 195 00:07:48,589 --> 00:07:46,020 looked like lights in the water so I 196 00:07:50,150 --> 00:07:48,599 like bent over looked down and I 197 00:07:52,070 --> 00:07:50,160 realized that they weren't in the water 198 00:07:55,070 --> 00:07:52,080 they were above the water it was a 199 00:07:56,870 --> 00:07:55,080 reflection so you know I flip over on my 200 00:08:00,290 --> 00:07:56,880 back on the dock that I was fishing off 201 00:08:03,589 --> 00:08:00,300 of and that was when everything changed 202 00:08:06,950 --> 00:08:03,599 for me what I saw it was a equilateral 203 00:08:09,650 --> 00:08:06,960 triangle formation of Lights one kind of 204 00:08:11,390 --> 00:08:09,660 white yellowish light on each point in a 205 00:08:14,450 --> 00:08:11,400 red light in the middle kind of like 206 00:08:16,909 --> 00:08:14,460 that prototypical black triangle UFO 207 00:08:19,070 --> 00:08:16,919 that a lot of people describe however I 208 00:08:20,830 --> 00:08:19,080 didn't see like a structured craft or 209 00:08:23,150 --> 00:08:20,840 Machinery it was just a perfect 210 00:08:24,950 --> 00:08:23,160 triangular formation and I couldn't see 211 00:08:28,010 --> 00:08:24,960 anything behind it like there were 212 00:08:30,589 --> 00:08:28,020 endless stars out that night it was they 213 00:08:32,389 --> 00:08:30,599 were completely blocked out so it was 214 00:08:34,550 --> 00:08:32,399 probably a structured craft of some sort 215 00:08:37,010 --> 00:08:34,560 and it was silent I'd ripped my 216 00:08:39,769 --> 00:08:37,020 headphones off at that point and all I 217 00:08:41,630 --> 00:08:39,779 could hear was water hitting the dock so 218 00:08:45,410 --> 00:08:41,640 whatever that thing was above me made no 219 00:08:48,050 --> 00:08:45,420 sound it was huge it was black and I was 220 00:08:52,550 --> 00:08:48,060 really scared I started trying to yell 221 00:08:54,769 --> 00:08:52,560 to my dad so the dock was off of a motel 222 00:08:56,750 --> 00:08:54,779 that we were staying at and the door was 223 00:08:59,030 --> 00:08:56,760 open I could literally see my dad inside 224 00:09:01,970 --> 00:08:59,040 the motel room and he was watching a New 225 00:09:03,290 --> 00:09:01,980 York Yankees game and I could not get 226 00:09:04,970 --> 00:09:03,300 him away from that no matter how many 227 00:09:07,370 --> 00:09:04,980 times I was like Dad Dad or something 228 00:09:09,110 --> 00:09:07,380 out here come out here nothing could get 229 00:09:11,750 --> 00:09:09,120 him away from this baseball game but 230 00:09:14,389 --> 00:09:11,760 finally I yelled enough where he thought 231 00:09:16,730 --> 00:09:14,399 I fell in the water so he bolts up he 232 00:09:19,610 --> 00:09:16,740 comes out and he actually saw it with me 233 00:09:21,949 --> 00:09:19,620 Kelly so I wasn't the only one to see it 234 00:09:24,050 --> 00:09:21,959 which is very rare and I feel very 235 00:09:26,870 --> 00:09:24,060 fortunate that he was there with me and 236 00:09:29,930 --> 00:09:26,880 we watched this black triangle formation 237 00:09:32,090 --> 00:09:29,940 Coast over this river that I was fishing 238 00:09:33,769 --> 00:09:32,100 off of and disappear on the other side 239 00:09:36,290 --> 00:09:33,779 of the river and I just remember looking 240 00:09:38,150 --> 00:09:36,300 at my dad and you know just this 12 year 241 00:09:40,430 --> 00:09:38,160 old kid looking at their father looking 242 00:09:42,889 --> 00:09:40,440 for something tell me tell me what was 243 00:09:46,009 --> 00:09:42,899 that you're my dad come on man and he 244 00:09:48,949 --> 00:09:46,019 just kind of shook his head I could tell 245 00:09:50,449 --> 00:09:48,959 he had no explanation for it Shrugged 246 00:09:52,310 --> 00:09:50,459 his shoulders walked back inside and 247 00:09:55,070 --> 00:09:52,320 watched the Yankees game and I was kind 248 00:09:56,870 --> 00:09:55,080 of just left there wondering for years 249 00:10:00,290 --> 00:09:56,880 and years about what it was and it 250 00:10:02,389 --> 00:10:00,300 terrified me I definitely didn't feel 251 00:10:05,750 --> 00:10:02,399 that awe-inspiring thing that people 252 00:10:07,730 --> 00:10:05,760 feel or amazement I was petrified I had 253 00:10:09,889 --> 00:10:07,740 nightmares about it and I kind of became 254 00:10:12,829 --> 00:10:09,899 obsessed with it started taking out 255 00:10:16,070 --> 00:10:12,839 books at the library about UFOs and 256 00:10:18,769 --> 00:10:16,080 trying to find other people who had seen 257 00:10:21,110 --> 00:10:18,779 these things and talk to them and it was 258 00:10:22,370 --> 00:10:21,120 lonely for a really long time I would 259 00:10:24,470 --> 00:10:22,380 tell some of my friends and they would 260 00:10:25,970 --> 00:10:24,480 just make fun of me so yeah I just 261 00:10:29,449 --> 00:10:25,980 didn't really talk about it for a really 262 00:10:32,090 --> 00:10:29,459 really really long time and then boom I 263 00:10:34,130 --> 00:10:32,100 I just was sick of keeping this in and I 264 00:10:37,009 --> 00:10:34,140 started talking about it and I was Off 265 00:10:39,230 --> 00:10:37,019 to the Races after that 266 00:10:41,750 --> 00:10:39,240 that's amazing did you ever talk to your 267 00:10:43,430 --> 00:10:41,760 dad about it again after that how did he 268 00:10:48,650 --> 00:10:43,440 remember that event 269 00:10:51,050 --> 00:10:48,660 so it wasn't until 2017 when the entire 270 00:10:53,389 --> 00:10:51,060 UFO conversation changed you know the 271 00:10:55,310 --> 00:10:53,399 New York Times article comes out UFOs go 272 00:10:57,470 --> 00:10:55,320 mainstream everyone's talking about it 273 00:11:00,050 --> 00:10:57,480 everything I'd been doing up until that 274 00:11:02,990 --> 00:11:00,060 point was kind of now Vindicated in so 275 00:11:05,870 --> 00:11:03,000 many words and I just remember going to 276 00:11:08,990 --> 00:11:05,880 my hometown Syracuse New York and going 277 00:11:13,610 --> 00:11:09,000 to a bar with my dad and maybe after 278 00:11:15,710 --> 00:11:13,620 three four ten beaters I just let it all 279 00:11:17,750 --> 00:11:15,720 out and we went there we had the 280 00:11:21,290 --> 00:11:17,760 conversation and I was like 281 00:11:24,170 --> 00:11:21,300 dad what the hell man like what was that 282 00:11:26,150 --> 00:11:24,180 thing we saw in 95 and he was like I 283 00:11:28,310 --> 00:11:26,160 don't know I'm like do you have any 284 00:11:30,350 --> 00:11:28,320 thoughts or theories with all the stuff 285 00:11:32,389 --> 00:11:30,360 that's come forward and all the work 286 00:11:34,610 --> 00:11:32,399 I've done like he followed my work he 287 00:11:36,470 --> 00:11:34,620 supported the hell out of me in the UFO 288 00:11:38,810 --> 00:11:36,480 field which is awesome 289 00:11:40,970 --> 00:11:38,820 um but he was no closer to an answer he 290 00:11:43,130 --> 00:11:40,980 just straight up told me I have 291 00:11:46,190 --> 00:11:43,140 absolutely no idea I had no idea what to 292 00:11:48,650 --> 00:11:46,200 tell you at the time I just wanted to 293 00:11:50,810 --> 00:11:48,660 forget about it and I was like okay cool 294 00:11:53,090 --> 00:11:50,820 cool so we're on the same page it's 295 00:11:54,829 --> 00:11:53,100 still unexplained and yeah that was a 296 00:11:57,410 --> 00:11:54,839 cool moment to have with him 20 297 00:11:59,509 --> 00:11:57,420 something years later where we were no 298 00:12:03,970 --> 00:11:59,519 closer to answers about what we'd seen 299 00:12:06,650 --> 00:12:03,980 but my father was now open to the UFO 300 00:12:09,230 --> 00:12:06,660 possibility more than ever and we talked 301 00:12:12,590 --> 00:12:09,240 for hours that night about rendo Shum 302 00:12:15,410 --> 00:12:12,600 and Roswell and all these famous UFO 303 00:12:17,269 --> 00:12:15,420 cases and he asked me about all the 304 00:12:19,790 --> 00:12:17,279 stuff that I was doing in the field and 305 00:12:21,590 --> 00:12:19,800 it was a really cool moment and I never 306 00:12:23,630 --> 00:12:21,600 thought UFOs would be the thing to bring 307 00:12:25,490 --> 00:12:23,640 me and my dad closer I always thought 308 00:12:28,490 --> 00:12:25,500 it'd be baseball or something like that 309 00:12:29,990 --> 00:12:28,500 but eventually it turned into UFOs so it 310 00:12:32,389 --> 00:12:30,000 was a cool moment 311 00:12:34,130 --> 00:12:32,399 that's awesome I love that I've had some 312 00:12:35,990 --> 00:12:34,140 of those experiences with my own family 313 00:12:38,030 --> 00:12:36,000 too they've been very supportive and 314 00:12:39,590 --> 00:12:38,040 it's spurred some really interesting 315 00:12:41,150 --> 00:12:39,600 conversations and conversations that I 316 00:12:42,350 --> 00:12:41,160 think brought us closer and I think it's 317 00:12:45,350 --> 00:12:42,360 wonderful that you were able to have 318 00:12:47,269 --> 00:12:45,360 that full circle moment so what stands 319 00:12:49,310 --> 00:12:47,279 out for me and your story and the 320 00:12:50,690 --> 00:12:49,320 stories in your book and also just 321 00:12:52,670 --> 00:12:50,700 through all the conversations that I've 322 00:12:55,550 --> 00:12:52,680 had with other experiencers doing this 323 00:12:58,190 --> 00:12:55,560 work is how often people end up being 324 00:12:59,449 --> 00:12:58,200 profoundly Changed by these encounters I 325 00:13:01,850 --> 00:12:59,459 know you alluded to that a little bit 326 00:13:03,350 --> 00:13:01,860 earlier for some reason just seeing 327 00:13:05,629 --> 00:13:03,360 something that you can't explain in the 328 00:13:07,730 --> 00:13:05,639 sky seems to have this lasting effect on 329 00:13:11,030 --> 00:13:07,740 some people so what do you make of that 330 00:13:13,790 --> 00:13:11,040 sort of transformational process 331 00:13:17,449 --> 00:13:13,800 you know I think in my first book back 332 00:13:19,610 --> 00:13:17,459 in 2016 I was looking for commonalities 333 00:13:21,590 --> 00:13:19,620 I was looking for patterns in these 334 00:13:25,069 --> 00:13:21,600 people were they changed the same way 335 00:13:27,889 --> 00:13:25,079 what were those changes and ultimately 336 00:13:30,829 --> 00:13:27,899 what conclusions did they come to with 337 00:13:33,590 --> 00:13:30,839 what they had seen and I found nothing 338 00:13:35,750 --> 00:13:33,600 and it sounds like I failed as a 339 00:13:37,490 --> 00:13:35,760 researcher and an author but it 340 00:13:39,530 --> 00:13:37,500 frustrated me that when I got to the 341 00:13:42,230 --> 00:13:39,540 conclusion part of the book I couldn't 342 00:13:45,410 --> 00:13:42,240 write anything because I was no closer 343 00:13:48,350 --> 00:13:45,420 to explaining UFOs or anything like that 344 00:13:51,170 --> 00:13:48,360 all I could do is rely on these people's 345 00:13:52,850 --> 00:13:51,180 testimony and how it made them feel in 346 00:13:54,949 --> 00:13:52,860 the moment and how it changed them 347 00:13:57,350 --> 00:13:54,959 afterwards and that like you said Kelly 348 00:14:00,769 --> 00:13:57,360 it changes everyone in so many different 349 00:14:03,110 --> 00:14:00,779 ways I mean some people rejected the 350 00:14:05,990 --> 00:14:03,120 experience and never really wanted to 351 00:14:09,790 --> 00:14:06,000 talk about it again or some saw it as a 352 00:14:12,889 --> 00:14:09,800 spiritual experience and became very 353 00:14:17,210 --> 00:14:12,899 religious or spiritual after the events 354 00:14:20,449 --> 00:14:17,220 and I came to realize that this is not a 355 00:14:22,069 --> 00:14:20,459 field of study I think I could be 356 00:14:25,269 --> 00:14:22,079 completely wrong on this at least for me 357 00:14:28,610 --> 00:14:25,279 it's not a field of study to find 358 00:14:30,470 --> 00:14:28,620 patterns to find conclusions it's the 359 00:14:33,110 --> 00:14:30,480 journey everyone's on their own Journey 360 00:14:34,910 --> 00:14:33,120 after having these experiences and it 361 00:14:37,069 --> 00:14:34,920 changes people in many many different 362 00:14:39,170 --> 00:14:37,079 ways it's messy it's scary it's 363 00:14:41,090 --> 00:14:39,180 beautiful it's awkward it's everything 364 00:14:43,910 --> 00:14:41,100 every emotion that you could possibly 365 00:14:46,490 --> 00:14:43,920 feel happens to these individuals when 366 00:14:48,490 --> 00:14:46,500 they have these experiences so yeah I 367 00:14:51,230 --> 00:14:48,500 would say at the end of the day UFOs 368 00:14:52,490 --> 00:14:51,240 literally rebel against everything we 369 00:14:55,490 --> 00:14:52,500 want 370 00:14:57,530 --> 00:14:55,500 to do and that's to understand them but 371 00:14:59,509 --> 00:14:57,540 they don't want us to at least I don't 372 00:15:01,490 --> 00:14:59,519 think they want us to and at least not 373 00:15:04,069 --> 00:15:01,500 right now 374 00:15:05,990 --> 00:15:04,079 very well sad I couldn't agree more 375 00:15:08,150 --> 00:15:06,000 so in collecting so many different 376 00:15:09,590 --> 00:15:08,160 experience or stories what are things 377 00:15:11,170 --> 00:15:09,600 that stand out to you I mean you know 378 00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:11,180 you said there's not necessarily 379 00:15:15,530 --> 00:15:13,440 patterns that are easily recognizable 380 00:15:17,389 --> 00:15:15,540 but what do you wish that the average 381 00:15:18,889 --> 00:15:17,399 person understood about these 382 00:15:20,569 --> 00:15:18,899 experiences and the people that have 383 00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:20,579 them that typically get lost in the 384 00:15:24,410 --> 00:15:23,040 traditional narrative I think what I 385 00:15:26,269 --> 00:15:24,420 want people to take away from at least 386 00:15:28,610 --> 00:15:26,279 the collection of stories that have come 387 00:15:31,009 --> 00:15:28,620 to me at the podcast or in the book is 388 00:15:34,129 --> 00:15:31,019 that these are just everyday people like 389 00:15:37,069 --> 00:15:34,139 you I have other podcasters that told 390 00:15:39,430 --> 00:15:37,079 their stories as well people in every 391 00:15:42,230 --> 00:15:39,440 Walk of Life every country every town 392 00:15:45,829 --> 00:15:42,240 every sort of background are having the 393 00:15:48,590 --> 00:15:45,839 experiences and not only that when you 394 00:15:52,370 --> 00:15:48,600 hear the term UFO it conjures such 395 00:15:55,850 --> 00:15:52,380 iconic imagery either the saucer or the 396 00:15:57,710 --> 00:15:55,860 gray alien but I'm sure in you know your 397 00:16:00,829 --> 00:15:57,720 journey in your Pursuit with the show 398 00:16:04,750 --> 00:16:00,839 and everything that these phenomena are 399 00:16:08,470 --> 00:16:04,760 far Stranger than any of those things 400 00:16:12,110 --> 00:16:08,480 and with the stories I got I was 401 00:16:14,569 --> 00:16:12,120 completely blown away with how weird 402 00:16:16,610 --> 00:16:14,579 some of them are I think when I first 403 00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:16,620 started I was like okay I want to find 404 00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:18,720 just the black triangle cases I want to 405 00:16:22,790 --> 00:16:21,120 find just like a nuts and bolts craft 406 00:16:24,530 --> 00:16:22,800 that someone saw because that's what 407 00:16:26,569 --> 00:16:24,540 people want to hear but the more I 408 00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:26,579 started to um dive into some of these 409 00:16:31,550 --> 00:16:28,320 stories the more I realize 410 00:16:33,769 --> 00:16:31,560 how strange they are like ridiculously 411 00:16:36,530 --> 00:16:33,779 strange there's a couple cases in this 412 00:16:39,650 --> 00:16:36,540 volume of the book that just I don't 413 00:16:42,710 --> 00:16:39,660 think anyone's ever come across UFOs 414 00:16:45,949 --> 00:16:42,720 like these so yeah I just want people to 415 00:16:48,350 --> 00:16:45,959 embrace the strange in a lot of this and 416 00:16:50,509 --> 00:16:48,360 realize that eventually is part of data 417 00:16:52,550 --> 00:16:50,519 you shouldn't brush that away just 418 00:16:55,009 --> 00:16:52,560 because it sounds weird or it doesn't 419 00:16:57,769 --> 00:16:55,019 fit into the narratives we've come to 420 00:16:59,990 --> 00:16:57,779 hear all the time when it comes to UFOs 421 00:17:02,210 --> 00:17:00,000 and to just Embrace that and realize 422 00:17:04,069 --> 00:17:02,220 that that has to be a part of the 423 00:17:06,409 --> 00:17:04,079 journey as well 424 00:17:08,569 --> 00:17:06,419 absolutely I think when I first got into 425 00:17:10,549 --> 00:17:08,579 this the weirdness was hard for me to 426 00:17:13,490 --> 00:17:10,559 handle but something that I've heard 427 00:17:16,250 --> 00:17:13,500 from so many mufon investigators for 428 00:17:18,530 --> 00:17:16,260 instance is that one of their number one 429 00:17:21,110 --> 00:17:18,540 clues that this case that they are 430 00:17:23,390 --> 00:17:21,120 looking into is fraudulent or the person 431 00:17:25,850 --> 00:17:23,400 is lying is when it makes too much sense 432 00:17:27,890 --> 00:17:25,860 when they're like the saucer it came 433 00:17:29,870 --> 00:17:27,900 down it landed in my yard they came out 434 00:17:32,150 --> 00:17:29,880 they said hi we went on the craft we 435 00:17:34,250 --> 00:17:32,160 flew around we came back they said bye 436 00:17:37,250 --> 00:17:34,260 like that is not how these stories go 437 00:17:40,909 --> 00:17:37,260 there's always something about it that 438 00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:40,919 is uncanny or bizarre or impossible or 439 00:17:46,549 --> 00:17:42,240 just 440 00:17:49,310 --> 00:17:46,559 against any kind of category that we try 441 00:17:52,310 --> 00:17:49,320 to put it in I tend to agree with that 442 00:17:54,409 --> 00:17:52,320 the weirder the case the more I'm apt to 443 00:17:56,870 --> 00:17:54,419 believe it because I really do think 444 00:17:59,210 --> 00:17:56,880 these things don't happen easily or 445 00:18:01,310 --> 00:17:59,220 chronological they're messy and it 446 00:18:03,770 --> 00:18:01,320 really is up to the Observer and their 447 00:18:07,190 --> 00:18:03,780 perception and interpretation of the 448 00:18:09,049 --> 00:18:07,200 experience that lends itself to what I 449 00:18:11,270 --> 00:18:09,059 personally think of their case not 450 00:18:12,890 --> 00:18:11,280 whether I believe it or not I try to 451 00:18:16,070 --> 00:18:12,900 keep that out of it to be completely 452 00:18:18,409 --> 00:18:16,080 honest I will hear any story I don't 453 00:18:20,870 --> 00:18:18,419 care how prototypical or how weird it is 454 00:18:22,850 --> 00:18:20,880 I just I love hearing stories I'm a 455 00:18:24,770 --> 00:18:22,860 listener I'm a playwright I love sitting 456 00:18:26,690 --> 00:18:24,780 in the back of the room and just hearing 457 00:18:28,730 --> 00:18:26,700 people interact I find it absolutely 458 00:18:30,710 --> 00:18:28,740 fascinating and that's why I do this 459 00:18:33,650 --> 00:18:30,720 that's why I listen to people's stories 460 00:18:35,930 --> 00:18:33,660 instead of trying to understand them or 461 00:18:38,750 --> 00:18:35,940 explain them for people I'm not a move 462 00:18:40,970 --> 00:18:38,760 on field investigator so yeah yeah I 463 00:18:43,430 --> 00:18:40,980 think the Messier and the weirder the 464 00:18:45,070 --> 00:18:43,440 better and the more apt I to pursue it 465 00:18:49,070 --> 00:18:45,080 for sure 466 00:18:51,110 --> 00:18:49,080 absolutely so I think what I find really 467 00:18:52,730 --> 00:18:51,120 cool about your podcast is that you've 468 00:18:55,070 --> 00:18:52,740 been doing this for longer than 469 00:18:57,470 --> 00:18:55,080 basically anybody of Our Generation like 470 00:19:00,409 --> 00:18:57,480 of our cohort and something I've been 471 00:19:03,350 --> 00:19:00,419 dying to ask you is you know you were 472 00:19:05,930 --> 00:19:03,360 doing this before the big Revelations of 473 00:19:07,490 --> 00:19:05,940 2017. what was that like because so many 474 00:19:09,110 --> 00:19:07,500 of us have come to this topic myself 475 00:19:11,390 --> 00:19:09,120 included just in the last few years 476 00:19:13,310 --> 00:19:11,400 since 2017 or even more recently that 477 00:19:16,850 --> 00:19:13,320 must have been wild what was that like 478 00:19:18,230 --> 00:19:16,860 it's interesting I was I'm oh God I 479 00:19:21,049 --> 00:19:18,240 can't believe I'm saying this but I am 480 00:19:23,870 --> 00:19:21,059 kind of part of the Old Guard of ufology 481 00:19:25,549 --> 00:19:23,880 yeah I guess I'll wear that as a Badge 482 00:19:27,230 --> 00:19:25,559 of Courage now as much as I enjoyed 483 00:19:30,110 --> 00:19:27,240 being like one of the younger UFO 484 00:19:32,630 --> 00:19:30,120 researchers it's very exciting to know 485 00:19:34,490 --> 00:19:32,640 that there's much younger people now 486 00:19:36,529 --> 00:19:34,500 getting involved and getting interested 487 00:19:38,930 --> 00:19:36,539 and I've met so many incredible people 488 00:19:41,270 --> 00:19:38,940 like yourself you know Andy over at that 489 00:19:43,610 --> 00:19:41,280 UFO podcast has become a dear friend of 490 00:19:46,310 --> 00:19:43,620 mine and same thing he just sort of came 491 00:19:48,770 --> 00:19:46,320 around when New York Times happened and 492 00:19:50,810 --> 00:19:48,780 in so many people got involved in this 493 00:19:54,110 --> 00:19:50,820 topic around that time and I think it's 494 00:19:56,330 --> 00:19:54,120 amazing you know as much as Twitter 495 00:19:59,230 --> 00:19:56,340 communities might get a lot of bad rap 496 00:20:02,270 --> 00:19:59,240 sometimes we really have grown something 497 00:20:04,310 --> 00:20:02,280 incredible over there on Twitter and in 498 00:20:06,230 --> 00:20:04,320 those sort of spaces and having awesome 499 00:20:08,029 --> 00:20:06,240 conversations but to get back to your 500 00:20:11,450 --> 00:20:08,039 question sorry 501 00:20:14,090 --> 00:20:11,460 um it was lonely I was super young 502 00:20:16,730 --> 00:20:14,100 nobody really took me that seriously 503 00:20:19,130 --> 00:20:16,740 until I came out with my first book and 504 00:20:22,130 --> 00:20:19,140 you know fine maybe I didn't have a lot 505 00:20:24,470 --> 00:20:22,140 to contribute then until I really dug my 506 00:20:26,750 --> 00:20:24,480 heels in and started researching and 507 00:20:29,990 --> 00:20:26,760 writing about the topic but it was a 508 00:20:31,970 --> 00:20:30,000 lonely place and it was basically just 509 00:20:35,270 --> 00:20:31,980 talking about the same cases over and 510 00:20:36,890 --> 00:20:35,280 over Roswell rendelsham blah blah blah 511 00:20:39,529 --> 00:20:36,900 blah don't get me wrong I love 512 00:20:43,310 --> 00:20:39,539 historical cases I cover them all the 513 00:20:46,610 --> 00:20:43,320 time but once 2017 hit and we got all 514 00:20:48,830 --> 00:20:46,620 these new fresh voices out there that 515 00:20:52,130 --> 00:20:48,840 also comes with new fresh thoughts and 516 00:20:55,070 --> 00:20:52,140 ideas and it was so cool and 517 00:20:57,650 --> 00:20:55,080 invigorating to hear new people's 518 00:21:00,529 --> 00:20:57,660 thoughts on UFOs instead of the same few 519 00:21:02,890 --> 00:21:00,539 people in this Echo chamber on every 520 00:21:05,810 --> 00:21:02,900 podcast every radio show every 521 00:21:08,090 --> 00:21:05,820 documentary about UFOs it was 522 00:21:09,770 --> 00:21:08,100 invigorating it was so stale and 523 00:21:11,570 --> 00:21:09,780 stagnant and I was thinking about 524 00:21:13,850 --> 00:21:11,580 getting out of it to be completely 525 00:21:16,789 --> 00:21:13,860 honest but I really do think think that 526 00:21:19,730 --> 00:21:16,799 that kind of injection of new blood as 527 00:21:22,610 --> 00:21:19,740 it were really did a lot no matter what 528 00:21:24,710 --> 00:21:22,620 you think about 2017 and that story and 529 00:21:26,990 --> 00:21:24,720 where it's gone from there it changed 530 00:21:28,730 --> 00:21:27,000 everything it changed this conversation 531 00:21:30,590 --> 00:21:28,740 and I don't know what I'd be doing now 532 00:21:32,810 --> 00:21:30,600 maybe I'd be playing baseball for the 533 00:21:34,970 --> 00:21:32,820 New York Yankees that'd be cool but I 534 00:21:36,890 --> 00:21:34,980 still like UFOs foreign 535 00:21:38,750 --> 00:21:36,900 that's so awesome and I just want to 536 00:21:41,270 --> 00:21:38,760 thank you honestly for leading from the 537 00:21:42,649 --> 00:21:41,280 front with that because I think in so 538 00:21:44,750 --> 00:21:42,659 many ways because you are kind of the 539 00:21:46,250 --> 00:21:44,760 Old Guard that the people who've been 540 00:21:47,570 --> 00:21:46,260 here for a long time have set the tone 541 00:21:49,370 --> 00:21:47,580 and I don't know if people listening 542 00:21:51,890 --> 00:21:49,380 realize this but like most of the big 543 00:21:54,110 --> 00:21:51,900 UFO podcast hosts like we're all friends 544 00:21:56,210 --> 00:21:54,120 we all talk to each other yeah there's 545 00:21:57,350 --> 00:21:56,220 not a ton of competition I think that we 546 00:22:00,110 --> 00:21:57,360 all kind of regard each other as 547 00:22:01,789 --> 00:22:00,120 colleagues and so thank you for setting 548 00:22:02,990 --> 00:22:01,799 the tone with that and thank you for I 549 00:22:07,070 --> 00:22:03,000 mean you were one of the first people 550 00:22:09,049 --> 00:22:07,080 who really supported my podcast early on 551 00:22:10,370 --> 00:22:09,059 and shared it out you didn't need to do 552 00:22:12,230 --> 00:22:10,380 that and I just always thought that was 553 00:22:13,610 --> 00:22:12,240 awesome so thank you for doing that for 554 00:22:15,590 --> 00:22:13,620 the community because I think it made a 555 00:22:18,289 --> 00:22:15,600 big difference you know thank you and 556 00:22:20,330 --> 00:22:18,299 honestly if you put the work in that 557 00:22:22,430 --> 00:22:20,340 immediately gains my respect I could see 558 00:22:24,350 --> 00:22:22,440 it I could see the passion and the 559 00:22:26,570 --> 00:22:24,360 Curiosity you had for the topic and I've 560 00:22:29,330 --> 00:22:26,580 seen that with so many other podcasters 561 00:22:32,210 --> 00:22:29,340 too it's not a competition there's room 562 00:22:34,430 --> 00:22:32,220 for everyone in all of it I tell people 563 00:22:37,310 --> 00:22:34,440 that you can look at UFOs so many 564 00:22:39,950 --> 00:22:37,320 different ways so let's attack it from 565 00:22:41,630 --> 00:22:39,960 all angles and you mentioned podcasting 566 00:22:44,270 --> 00:22:41,640 the podcasting world is one of the most 567 00:22:46,850 --> 00:22:44,280 supportive I've ever seen way more than 568 00:22:49,190 --> 00:22:46,860 the UFO Community ever was don't get me 569 00:22:52,370 --> 00:22:49,200 wrong I've had amazing mentors and a lot 570 00:22:53,930 --> 00:22:52,380 of support to kind of build up what I 571 00:22:55,669 --> 00:22:53,940 have done and what I become in this 572 00:22:58,430 --> 00:22:55,679 field but 573 00:23:00,710 --> 00:22:58,440 I love talking to you I love talking to 574 00:23:03,110 --> 00:23:00,720 all the other people who have started 575 00:23:05,450 --> 00:23:03,120 podcasts or or YouTube channels because 576 00:23:07,850 --> 00:23:05,460 it doesn't matter how long I've been in 577 00:23:11,270 --> 00:23:07,860 all this I'm no closer to knowing what 578 00:23:12,890 --> 00:23:11,280 the hell UFOs are or aren't so why would 579 00:23:14,450 --> 00:23:12,900 I take that away from someone who may 580 00:23:16,909 --> 00:23:14,460 have just even gotten into the field 581 00:23:20,210 --> 00:23:16,919 they could be the one to finally unlock 582 00:23:23,570 --> 00:23:20,220 that mystery so why push that away why 583 00:23:25,669 --> 00:23:23,580 put people down for just trying and yeah 584 00:23:28,310 --> 00:23:25,679 I will support anyone who wants to start 585 00:23:31,010 --> 00:23:28,320 a UFO podcast or write a book about UFOs 586 00:23:33,409 --> 00:23:31,020 as long as they're respectful and treat 587 00:23:35,330 --> 00:23:33,419 the topic with this sincerity and 588 00:23:37,750 --> 00:23:35,340 empathy that I think it truly deserves 589 00:23:40,370 --> 00:23:37,760 you're good with me 590 00:23:42,110 --> 00:23:40,380 that's awesome and you know like you 591 00:23:43,970 --> 00:23:42,120 said you don't necessarily know what 592 00:23:46,370 --> 00:23:43,980 UFOs are you're not any closer to it 593 00:23:48,590 --> 00:23:46,380 you're somebody that wants to maintain a 594 00:23:51,169 --> 00:23:48,600 very open mind about the UFO phenomenon 595 00:23:52,909 --> 00:23:51,179 but are there any particular theories or 596 00:23:54,350 --> 00:23:52,919 ideas that are just really exciting to 597 00:23:56,930 --> 00:23:54,360 you right now 598 00:23:59,630 --> 00:23:56,940 yeah so and I know you've covered this 599 00:24:04,010 --> 00:23:59,640 on your show extensively as well is the 600 00:24:06,529 --> 00:24:04,020 time travel Theory I love it the more we 601 00:24:08,330 --> 00:24:06,539 learn about the possibilities of 602 00:24:11,450 --> 00:24:08,340 something like that the more I'm really 603 00:24:14,810 --> 00:24:11,460 looking at it as a possibility to maybe 604 00:24:17,029 --> 00:24:14,820 some of what UFOs are not all obviously 605 00:24:19,730 --> 00:24:17,039 I think there's a million explanations 606 00:24:22,070 --> 00:24:19,740 for UFOs but I find it absolutely 607 00:24:25,070 --> 00:24:22,080 fascinating sort of the precognitive 608 00:24:27,590 --> 00:24:25,080 nature to a lot of these phenomena it 609 00:24:29,810 --> 00:24:27,600 does make me truly Wonder have they been 610 00:24:33,409 --> 00:24:29,820 here before in seeing how these things 611 00:24:35,210 --> 00:24:33,419 play out is that why the Tic Tac UFO is 612 00:24:37,610 --> 00:24:35,220 able to get to a cat point that nobody 613 00:24:40,850 --> 00:24:37,620 else knew about the possibilities are 614 00:24:43,430 --> 00:24:40,860 endless we've even heard from several 615 00:24:45,169 --> 00:24:43,440 individuals and experience that's what 616 00:24:48,110 --> 00:24:45,179 this is they're coming back to tell us 617 00:24:50,750 --> 00:24:48,120 and warn us of whatever impending doom 618 00:24:53,450 --> 00:24:50,760 or destruction or possible even 619 00:24:56,330 --> 00:24:53,460 salvation again I find that absolutely 620 00:24:58,610 --> 00:24:56,340 fascinating so that's a theory I'm kind 621 00:25:00,350 --> 00:24:58,620 of leaning towards right now but ask me 622 00:25:02,810 --> 00:25:00,360 tomorrow and I'll probably have a 623 00:25:05,090 --> 00:25:02,820 completely different response for you 624 00:25:07,549 --> 00:25:05,100 I agree I changed my mind every day 625 00:25:09,470 --> 00:25:07,559 about what my favorite one is so 626 00:25:11,029 --> 00:25:09,480 so the UFO Community as we've been 627 00:25:12,590 --> 00:25:11,039 talking about is relatively small and 628 00:25:14,750 --> 00:25:12,600 the number of experts who are willing to 629 00:25:16,190 --> 00:25:14,760 go on the record is even smaller so 630 00:25:18,049 --> 00:25:16,200 naturally you end up seeing a lot of the 631 00:25:20,149 --> 00:25:18,059 same faces on the podcasting conference 632 00:25:22,130 --> 00:25:20,159 circuits but there's also a bunch of 633 00:25:24,350 --> 00:25:22,140 sort of lesser known but truly brilliant 634 00:25:25,730 --> 00:25:24,360 researchers whose work ends up flying 635 00:25:27,950 --> 00:25:25,740 under the radar for one reason or 636 00:25:29,330 --> 00:25:27,960 another who do you think we should be 637 00:25:31,010 --> 00:25:29,340 paying more attention to in the 638 00:25:35,029 --> 00:25:31,020 community and why 639 00:25:38,450 --> 00:25:35,039 in terms of people who we haven't really 640 00:25:40,789 --> 00:25:38,460 seen or heard from a lot in whether it's 641 00:25:43,010 --> 00:25:40,799 on TV or anything like that would have 642 00:25:46,730 --> 00:25:43,020 to be my buddies over here in the UK 643 00:25:50,510 --> 00:25:46,740 we've got Dan zetterstrom we've got 644 00:25:52,310 --> 00:25:50,520 Vinnie Adams Andy mcgrillin grem Rendell 645 00:25:54,350 --> 00:25:52,320 a lot of these guys are doing incredible 646 00:25:56,930 --> 00:25:54,360 work over here trying to and I should 647 00:26:00,169 --> 00:25:56,940 mention I now live in the UK trying to 648 00:26:02,810 --> 00:26:00,179 push this topic over here because it 649 00:26:05,510 --> 00:26:02,820 isn't taken as seriously if it's covered 650 00:26:07,669 --> 00:26:05,520 by the BBC or news outlets here it's 651 00:26:10,010 --> 00:26:07,679 still kind of with a smirk and ridicule 652 00:26:13,549 --> 00:26:10,020 so they're trying to change that they're 653 00:26:16,310 --> 00:26:13,559 trying to show their country that this 654 00:26:18,649 --> 00:26:16,320 is a topic worth pursuing so all those 655 00:26:20,930 --> 00:26:18,659 guys over at UAP media UK I'll 656 00:26:23,570 --> 00:26:20,940 definitely give them a shout out I also 657 00:26:25,310 --> 00:26:23,580 want to shout out my co-host at 658 00:26:28,789 --> 00:26:25,320 somewhere in the sky it's Chrissy Newton 659 00:26:30,710 --> 00:26:28,799 she's a wonderful voice in this field 660 00:26:33,169 --> 00:26:30,720 that I don't think it's the credit she 661 00:26:35,630 --> 00:26:33,179 deserves she does a lot of behind the 662 00:26:39,230 --> 00:26:35,640 scenes work over at the debrief the 663 00:26:41,029 --> 00:26:39,240 Science Tech and defense website and she 664 00:26:43,610 --> 00:26:41,039 also has a podcast of her own called 665 00:26:46,010 --> 00:26:43,620 rebelliously curious where she has 666 00:26:48,230 --> 00:26:46,020 conversations that honestly no one else 667 00:26:50,090 --> 00:26:48,240 is doing in the UFO field and I think 668 00:26:53,269 --> 00:26:50,100 it's awesome she talks to all different 669 00:26:55,549 --> 00:26:53,279 types of scientists and futurists and 670 00:26:57,350 --> 00:26:55,559 technologists and uh bringing them into 671 00:27:00,049 --> 00:26:57,360 the conversation so it's super 672 00:27:02,269 --> 00:27:00,059 refreshing to see stuff like that so 673 00:27:04,610 --> 00:27:02,279 those are a few of the people that I say 674 00:27:07,430 --> 00:27:04,620 to keep an eye out for but again people 675 00:27:09,529 --> 00:27:07,440 are popping up left and right all the 676 00:27:12,230 --> 00:27:09,539 time the gentleman who put on the 677 00:27:14,510 --> 00:27:12,240 conference that you've hosted in New 678 00:27:18,610 --> 00:27:14,520 York City they do a wonderful job as 679 00:27:21,409 --> 00:27:18,620 well Jay and I'm free 680 00:27:23,210 --> 00:27:21,419 James yeah Ian Dolly thank you thank you 681 00:27:24,590 --> 00:27:23,220 thank you I'm horrible with names so 682 00:27:26,810 --> 00:27:24,600 James please forgive me if you're 683 00:27:29,690 --> 00:27:26,820 listening to this it's all it's on me 684 00:27:32,029 --> 00:27:29,700 brother my brain is the mush that 685 00:27:34,090 --> 00:27:32,039 conference I am so jealous that I 686 00:27:37,130 --> 00:27:34,100 haven't gotten over there yet because 687 00:27:39,289 --> 00:27:37,140 those are the types of events we need 688 00:27:41,990 --> 00:27:39,299 where you're not seeing the same people 689 00:27:44,990 --> 00:27:42,000 over and over and over again rehashing 690 00:27:48,169 --> 00:27:45,000 the same UFO cases it's fresh it's 691 00:27:49,970 --> 00:27:48,179 ambitious and I think it's awesome that 692 00:27:51,890 --> 00:27:49,980 those types of events are happening so 693 00:27:53,630 --> 00:27:51,900 shout out to them as well and yeah 694 00:27:56,210 --> 00:27:53,640 there's too many there's too many to 695 00:27:57,890 --> 00:27:56,220 even even really discuss here but yeah 696 00:28:00,830 --> 00:27:57,900 those are just a few 697 00:28:02,930 --> 00:28:00,840 I co-sign on literally all of those and 698 00:28:04,190 --> 00:28:02,940 I'll make sure we have links to all of 699 00:28:06,289 --> 00:28:04,200 those people in the episode description 700 00:28:08,029 --> 00:28:06,299 so that people can check them out 701 00:28:09,830 --> 00:28:08,039 because there's some really great work 702 00:28:11,990 --> 00:28:09,840 being done by all those folks and also 703 00:28:13,850 --> 00:28:12,000 every single one of them to the very 704 00:28:15,710 --> 00:28:13,860 last one are just some of the nicest 705 00:28:17,510 --> 00:28:15,720 kindest people you could ever meet in 706 00:28:20,510 --> 00:28:17,520 your life also 707 00:28:22,490 --> 00:28:20,520 absolutely so with all the hundreds of 708 00:28:24,350 --> 00:28:22,500 episodes that you've done which ones 709 00:28:27,409 --> 00:28:24,360 stand out to you as being the most 710 00:28:29,930 --> 00:28:27,419 surprising or the most impactful oh wow 711 00:28:32,690 --> 00:28:29,940 there's obviously like they're all your 712 00:28:35,750 --> 00:28:32,700 babies as you know so I want to say them 713 00:28:38,870 --> 00:28:35,760 all but there are a few that really left 714 00:28:41,149 --> 00:28:38,880 Lasting Impressions on me and the first 715 00:28:44,390 --> 00:28:41,159 one I can really think of was Stanton 716 00:28:46,370 --> 00:28:44,400 Friedman one of the just preeminent The 717 00:28:50,510 --> 00:28:46,380 Godfather I guess if you followed you 718 00:28:53,330 --> 00:28:50,520 over 50 years he spent researching UFOs 719 00:28:56,029 --> 00:28:53,340 and just an incredible man the kindest 720 00:28:59,149 --> 00:28:56,039 guy in the world I interviewed him for 721 00:29:00,830 --> 00:28:59,159 my 50th episode of the podcast and this 722 00:29:03,890 --> 00:29:00,840 was actually months right before he 723 00:29:06,350 --> 00:29:03,900 passed away so I took it as a huge honor 724 00:29:09,649 --> 00:29:06,360 to finally talk to him and get him on 725 00:29:12,409 --> 00:29:09,659 the show and it wasn't even Kelly like 726 00:29:14,870 --> 00:29:12,419 the UFO conversation we had he went 727 00:29:16,549 --> 00:29:14,880 through his entire life in like career 728 00:29:20,210 --> 00:29:16,559 with me it was like two and a half hours 729 00:29:22,370 --> 00:29:20,220 long my think I maybe talked once or 730 00:29:24,289 --> 00:29:22,380 twice during that entire time and asked 731 00:29:26,529 --> 00:29:24,299 like maybe two questions but that's 732 00:29:30,110 --> 00:29:26,539 Statin Franklin and I just remember 733 00:29:32,149 --> 00:29:30,120 someone who again grew up listening to 734 00:29:34,850 --> 00:29:32,159 that man's voice on every documentary 735 00:29:38,230 --> 00:29:34,860 and radio show and reading his books 736 00:29:40,850 --> 00:29:38,240 sitting there almost like in a surreal 737 00:29:43,310 --> 00:29:40,860 limbo like I can't believe saying 738 00:29:46,070 --> 00:29:43,320 Freeman's literally talking to me right 739 00:29:47,690 --> 00:29:46,080 now it was crazy so that one left a 740 00:29:50,389 --> 00:29:47,700 lasting impression on me especially 741 00:29:52,190 --> 00:29:50,399 because we unfortunately lost him not 742 00:29:53,870 --> 00:29:52,200 too long after that I mean I just 743 00:29:55,130 --> 00:29:53,880 learned so much about him as an 744 00:29:57,529 --> 00:29:55,140 individual which I think is really 745 00:29:59,990 --> 00:29:57,539 important in this field too we all get 746 00:30:02,930 --> 00:30:00,000 these like 2D versions of each other 747 00:30:05,389 --> 00:30:02,940 like oh Ryan's podcast host Kelly's a 748 00:30:07,970 --> 00:30:05,399 podcast host okay we have lives outside 749 00:30:09,470 --> 00:30:07,980 of this too and it was really cool to 750 00:30:12,230 --> 00:30:09,480 kind of get to know him a little better 751 00:30:16,430 --> 00:30:12,240 outside of the UFO world the other one 752 00:30:18,889 --> 00:30:16,440 that really sticks out to me would 753 00:30:20,810 --> 00:30:18,899 probably have to be be Diana Walsh 754 00:30:24,110 --> 00:30:20,820 pasoka I know you've had her on your 755 00:30:26,810 --> 00:30:24,120 show too but again bringing something 756 00:30:29,269 --> 00:30:26,820 into the topic that no one had ever 757 00:30:32,630 --> 00:30:29,279 really done before that UFOs and 758 00:30:35,930 --> 00:30:32,640 religion and how it all mixes and melds 759 00:30:39,830 --> 00:30:35,940 together and I had the incredible 760 00:30:42,110 --> 00:30:39,840 opportunity to have her and Leslie Kane 761 00:30:44,810 --> 00:30:42,120 the New York Times journalist and author 762 00:30:47,029 --> 00:30:44,820 on the same show and that was a moment 763 00:30:48,830 --> 00:30:47,039 I'll never forget I don't know how it 764 00:30:50,630 --> 00:30:48,840 happened how it came to be I think 765 00:30:53,029 --> 00:30:50,640 Leslie made it happen actually because 766 00:30:54,830 --> 00:30:53,039 she lived in New York when I was living 767 00:30:57,049 --> 00:30:54,840 there and I actually went to her 768 00:31:00,049 --> 00:30:57,059 apartment and recorded the episode live 769 00:31:02,450 --> 00:31:00,059 there at her it was another surreal 770 00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:02,460 moment I'm like oh my God I'm in Leslie 771 00:31:07,850 --> 00:31:04,320 Kate's apartment talking to her and 772 00:31:11,210 --> 00:31:07,860 Diana Walsh and they bounced off of each 773 00:31:15,169 --> 00:31:11,220 other seamlessly and it was so 774 00:31:17,330 --> 00:31:15,179 fascinating to hear two women who 775 00:31:20,149 --> 00:31:17,340 approached the UFO topic 776 00:31:23,029 --> 00:31:20,159 similarly but also differently in many 777 00:31:25,310 --> 00:31:23,039 different ways and just have this 778 00:31:27,710 --> 00:31:25,320 incredible conversation and I kind of 779 00:31:29,750 --> 00:31:27,720 left that day being like wow this is 780 00:31:32,389 --> 00:31:29,760 what we need more of we need more voices 781 00:31:34,610 --> 00:31:32,399 out there more women to be completely 782 00:31:36,830 --> 00:31:34,620 honest getting involved with this topic 783 00:31:39,590 --> 00:31:36,840 so that we're not hearing the same 784 00:31:41,990 --> 00:31:39,600 middle-aged white men talking about this 785 00:31:43,490 --> 00:31:42,000 again and again and again and again so 786 00:31:45,049 --> 00:31:43,500 yeah those are two that are really 787 00:31:46,669 --> 00:31:45,059 coming to mind right now of moments 788 00:31:50,450 --> 00:31:46,679 where I almost felt outside of my own 789 00:31:53,049 --> 00:31:50,460 body but I you know you take the good 790 00:31:56,330 --> 00:31:53,059 with the bad I've had some horrible 791 00:31:57,830 --> 00:31:56,340 memories of episodes as well we won't go 792 00:32:01,549 --> 00:31:57,840 there but those are definitely the good 793 00:32:04,250 --> 00:32:01,559 ones oh amazing amazing 794 00:32:06,409 --> 00:32:04,260 so I haven't had another podcaster on 795 00:32:08,510 --> 00:32:06,419 before you're the very first and I'm I'm 796 00:32:10,310 --> 00:32:08,520 very happy about but I actually wanted 797 00:32:11,750 --> 00:32:10,320 to take the opportunity to have a 798 00:32:14,389 --> 00:32:11,760 conversation that I haven't really had 799 00:32:17,269 --> 00:32:14,399 on this podcast before about what this 800 00:32:19,310 --> 00:32:17,279 whole process is like I'm sure that like 801 00:32:21,409 --> 00:32:19,320 me you get emails and messages from 802 00:32:24,110 --> 00:32:21,419 listeners all the time who are asking 803 00:32:26,330 --> 00:32:24,120 about how they can get more involved so 804 00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:26,340 what advice would you give to people who 805 00:32:29,810 --> 00:32:28,080 feel called to do this work but just 806 00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:29,820 aren't really sure where to start 807 00:32:34,610 --> 00:32:32,880 yeah you know it's not easy I'll 808 00:32:37,010 --> 00:32:34,620 definitely put that right in front 809 00:32:39,649 --> 00:32:37,020 because that is most important anyone 810 00:32:41,570 --> 00:32:39,659 can push record and start talking about 811 00:32:43,909 --> 00:32:41,580 any topic there's a podcast literally 812 00:32:47,930 --> 00:32:43,919 for everything you can possibly think of 813 00:32:50,990 --> 00:32:47,940 and there are countless UFO podcasts as 814 00:32:53,570 --> 00:32:51,000 well but a lot of them and I've seen it 815 00:32:55,730 --> 00:32:53,580 happen they maybe do one or two maybe 816 00:32:57,409 --> 00:32:55,740 five episodes at the most and then you 817 00:32:59,810 --> 00:32:57,419 never hear from them again because it 818 00:33:02,029 --> 00:32:59,820 wasn't what they expected either the 819 00:33:04,070 --> 00:33:02,039 workload was too much or they weren't 820 00:33:06,470 --> 00:33:04,080 getting the downloads they wanted or 821 00:33:08,810 --> 00:33:06,480 yeah it just wasn't what they expected 822 00:33:12,289 --> 00:33:08,820 so I do get that question a lot like how 823 00:33:17,930 --> 00:33:12,299 do I start my own podcast and I just say 824 00:33:19,970 --> 00:33:17,940 do it just just push record start and go 825 00:33:21,649 --> 00:33:19,980 from there it's there's gonna be bumps 826 00:33:23,269 --> 00:33:21,659 along the road but I think one of the 827 00:33:25,669 --> 00:33:23,279 most important things I tell people is 828 00:33:27,889 --> 00:33:25,679 stick with it when I first started my 829 00:33:30,529 --> 00:33:27,899 show I had no idea if anyone would ever 830 00:33:32,269 --> 00:33:30,539 listen to me or want to listen to me who 831 00:33:36,710 --> 00:33:32,279 am I to be telling people what to think 832 00:33:40,250 --> 00:33:36,720 about UFOs so I gradually 833 00:33:43,070 --> 00:33:40,260 grew an audience organically like I 834 00:33:45,409 --> 00:33:43,080 wasn't expecting whatever 100 000 835 00:33:48,169 --> 00:33:45,419 downloads on my first episode or 836 00:33:50,990 --> 00:33:48,179 anything like that but slowly gradually 837 00:33:53,389 --> 00:33:51,000 you start to see more people possibly 838 00:33:54,950 --> 00:33:53,399 listening or getting interested so 839 00:33:57,230 --> 00:33:54,960 that's what kind of got me going like 840 00:33:59,690 --> 00:33:57,240 week by week maybe a little bit more a 841 00:34:01,730 --> 00:33:59,700 little bit more that's cool and then 842 00:34:04,370 --> 00:34:01,740 there's the whole business side of 843 00:34:07,370 --> 00:34:04,380 podcasting too like you can't just push 844 00:34:09,829 --> 00:34:07,380 record and put it up you have to find 845 00:34:11,990 --> 00:34:09,839 somewhere to host the audio and that 846 00:34:15,050 --> 00:34:12,000 costs money you have to buy a microphone 847 00:34:18,470 --> 00:34:15,060 and that costs money so it is an 848 00:34:19,849 --> 00:34:18,480 investment like I I remember I was 849 00:34:22,250 --> 00:34:19,859 living in New York at the time 850 00:34:24,349 --> 00:34:22,260 struggling artist and spending every 851 00:34:27,470 --> 00:34:24,359 last penny I had to try to do this 852 00:34:29,510 --> 00:34:27,480 podcast and eating Ramen you know for a 853 00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:29,520 week straight just to save money to get 854 00:34:34,669 --> 00:34:31,919 a new microphone for headphones but 855 00:34:38,570 --> 00:34:34,679 anyone can do it it's a very gorilla 856 00:34:40,909 --> 00:34:38,580 style thing to do so so all I can say 857 00:34:42,950 --> 00:34:40,919 honestly is just do it there's no 858 00:34:45,169 --> 00:34:42,960 there's no Playbook on how to do it 859 00:34:46,669 --> 00:34:45,179 successfully or properly reach out to 860 00:34:48,950 --> 00:34:46,679 people reach out to Kelly reach out to 861 00:34:51,409 --> 00:34:48,960 me ask questions I'm happy to help 862 00:34:53,629 --> 00:34:51,419 people always always and I do get those 863 00:34:55,849 --> 00:34:53,639 emails a lot and my first thing I always 864 00:34:58,010 --> 00:34:55,859 say is just do it as not I guess I'm 865 00:34:59,450 --> 00:34:58,020 stealing that from Nike I'm where are 866 00:35:01,490 --> 00:34:59,460 you gonna get a trademark infringement 867 00:35:03,950 --> 00:35:01,500 here but yeah just do it just give it a 868 00:35:06,170 --> 00:35:03,960 try you never know who's going to listen 869 00:35:10,190 --> 00:35:06,180 or who's going to find what you're doing 870 00:35:12,950 --> 00:35:10,200 and I'm past 300 episodes now and I'm 871 00:35:14,750 --> 00:35:12,960 thankful for every single person who 872 00:35:17,450 --> 00:35:14,760 ever took a chance and listened and 873 00:35:19,970 --> 00:35:17,460 continues to listen yeah it's a job as 874 00:35:22,490 --> 00:35:19,980 you know it's a full-time job doing it 875 00:35:24,710 --> 00:35:22,500 it is easy to push record and talk and 876 00:35:26,569 --> 00:35:24,720 whatnot but at the end of the day so 877 00:35:29,089 --> 00:35:26,579 much more goes into it then you will 878 00:35:31,430 --> 00:35:29,099 learn that as the process continues and 879 00:35:32,930 --> 00:35:31,440 what works for you and what doesn't but 880 00:35:34,609 --> 00:35:32,940 at the end of the day it really comes 881 00:35:36,349 --> 00:35:34,619 down to the content that you're 882 00:35:37,790 --> 00:35:36,359 producing and the passion you have for 883 00:35:40,430 --> 00:35:37,800 the top think you're talking about again 884 00:35:42,950 --> 00:35:40,440 whether it's UFOs or something else so 885 00:35:45,770 --> 00:35:42,960 as long as your heart is truly in to 886 00:35:48,410 --> 00:35:45,780 this UFO question I think you'll be 887 00:35:50,569 --> 00:35:48,420 successful at it and that's why certain 888 00:35:53,450 --> 00:35:50,579 shows kind of rise to the top and some 889 00:35:55,190 --> 00:35:53,460 don't I honestly feel the true passion 890 00:35:57,230 --> 00:35:55,200 and curiosity you have the topic with 891 00:35:59,270 --> 00:35:57,240 the topic will shine through and will 892 00:36:01,910 --> 00:35:59,280 resonate with people and those are the 893 00:36:03,650 --> 00:36:01,920 shows that kind of you know I hate using 894 00:36:05,630 --> 00:36:03,660 the term rice to the top because it's 895 00:36:08,150 --> 00:36:05,640 really not about that but it's the shows 896 00:36:10,370 --> 00:36:08,160 that you will notice get the most 897 00:36:13,390 --> 00:36:10,380 listens and downloads or whatever so 898 00:36:17,210 --> 00:36:13,400 yeah that's my really long-winded 899 00:36:19,010 --> 00:36:17,220 diatribe on how to start a podcast no I 900 00:36:21,890 --> 00:36:19,020 think it's great I mean I remember when 901 00:36:23,390 --> 00:36:21,900 I first started I think I released my 902 00:36:26,030 --> 00:36:23,400 first two episodes and I think in the 903 00:36:28,730 --> 00:36:26,040 first week I got like 35 downloads and 904 00:36:31,010 --> 00:36:28,740 but I remember saying to my now husband 905 00:36:33,710 --> 00:36:31,020 who's my fiance at the time you know 906 00:36:35,510 --> 00:36:33,720 what if only 50 people a week listen to 907 00:36:37,609 --> 00:36:35,520 this podcast I'm gonna keep doing it 908 00:36:40,069 --> 00:36:37,619 because I cared about it that much and I 909 00:36:42,470 --> 00:36:40,079 think that you have to go into it with 910 00:36:44,390 --> 00:36:42,480 that level of that you would do this if 911 00:36:46,069 --> 00:36:44,400 basically no one would listen because 912 00:36:48,109 --> 00:36:46,079 it's going to take a while to build up 913 00:36:50,390 --> 00:36:48,119 an audience and you have to have that 914 00:36:52,849 --> 00:36:50,400 passion for it and also what I always 915 00:36:56,210 --> 00:36:52,859 tell people is to just be yourself I 916 00:36:58,550 --> 00:36:56,220 have yes people who reach out to me who 917 00:36:59,810 --> 00:36:58,560 would like to I mean and this is like 918 00:37:02,030 --> 00:36:59,820 the biggest compliment I could ever 919 00:37:03,829 --> 00:37:02,040 receive it touches me deeply anytime I 920 00:37:05,810 --> 00:37:03,839 get an email like this that people will 921 00:37:08,089 --> 00:37:05,820 even email me an offer to work for me 922 00:37:10,190 --> 00:37:08,099 for free on the podcast and the thing I 923 00:37:13,250 --> 00:37:10,200 always say to them is if you're feeling 924 00:37:15,829 --> 00:37:13,260 the call to this work that call is for 925 00:37:17,510 --> 00:37:15,839 you if you feel that that means that you 926 00:37:19,790 --> 00:37:17,520 have something to contribute that's 927 00:37:21,290 --> 00:37:19,800 different than what everybody else has 928 00:37:23,089 --> 00:37:21,300 to contribute like you were saying 929 00:37:25,430 --> 00:37:23,099 bringing all these new voices in in 930 00:37:27,470 --> 00:37:25,440 different perspectives and people from 931 00:37:29,510 --> 00:37:27,480 different backgrounds and different 932 00:37:31,730 --> 00:37:29,520 professional experiences and all of that 933 00:37:33,470 --> 00:37:31,740 gives you a different perspective and I 934 00:37:36,530 --> 00:37:33,480 think that the more authentic you can be 935 00:37:39,109 --> 00:37:36,540 to to who you are and what you have to 936 00:37:40,370 --> 00:37:39,119 offer I think that that goes a long way 937 00:37:43,310 --> 00:37:40,380 you shouldn't try to be somebody else 938 00:37:45,470 --> 00:37:43,320 that person is already taken 939 00:37:47,390 --> 00:37:45,480 that's such a good point and you know I 940 00:37:50,630 --> 00:37:47,400 don't talk about this often sort of the 941 00:37:52,670 --> 00:37:50,640 origin of why I started the podcast like 942 00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:52,680 yes I started it to continue the 943 00:37:58,670 --> 00:37:55,680 conversations I had in my book but I 944 00:38:01,069 --> 00:37:58,680 have to thank an individual who inspired 945 00:38:03,589 --> 00:38:01,079 me to start my show and that's Shannon 946 00:38:06,890 --> 00:38:03,599 legro she's more well known in the 947 00:38:09,410 --> 00:38:06,900 Bigfoot Community however she has a 948 00:38:10,970 --> 00:38:09,420 podcast that's called into The Fray and 949 00:38:13,190 --> 00:38:10,980 I would come on from time to time and 950 00:38:15,050 --> 00:38:13,200 talk about UFOs if there was UFOs in the 951 00:38:17,690 --> 00:38:15,060 news I kind of come on and do my little 952 00:38:19,910 --> 00:38:17,700 segment my little tap dance UFO tap 953 00:38:21,950 --> 00:38:19,920 dance and then getting off stage and the 954 00:38:24,530 --> 00:38:21,960 more I contributed to the show I think 955 00:38:27,050 --> 00:38:24,540 the more she realized like you have 956 00:38:29,329 --> 00:38:27,060 something unique here and something to 957 00:38:31,310 --> 00:38:29,339 truly say and maybe you should think 958 00:38:32,990 --> 00:38:31,320 about starting your own show and I kind 959 00:38:34,490 --> 00:38:33,000 of laughed at her at the time and I'm 960 00:38:37,730 --> 00:38:34,500 like yeah who the hell is gonna listen 961 00:38:40,130 --> 00:38:37,740 to me and she was really the one to 962 00:38:40,870 --> 00:38:40,140 inspire me to start my show and helped 963 00:38:45,829 --> 00:38:40,880 me 964 00:38:49,190 --> 00:38:45,839 technical stuff where do I host my files 965 00:38:54,290 --> 00:38:49,200 how do I edit all that stuff how do I 966 00:38:56,150 --> 00:38:54,300 find ads for my show and music and blah 967 00:38:59,150 --> 00:38:56,160 blah blah blah blah I really have heard 968 00:39:01,010 --> 00:38:59,160 a thing so if you really if someone 969 00:39:04,250 --> 00:39:01,020 truly inspires you in the podcasting 970 00:39:06,050 --> 00:39:04,260 World reach out to them and you know I 971 00:39:07,250 --> 00:39:06,060 have those people too who like email me 972 00:39:10,730 --> 00:39:07,260 and they're like I would love to do 973 00:39:13,609 --> 00:39:10,740 research for your podcast and that is so 974 00:39:15,710 --> 00:39:13,619 nice of them to do that and say I don't 975 00:39:17,870 --> 00:39:15,720 want anything for it I just like I kind 976 00:39:19,490 --> 00:39:17,880 of want to get involved and I've done it 977 00:39:21,770 --> 00:39:19,500 look I have people who write and 978 00:39:24,050 --> 00:39:21,780 research some of my episodes for me and 979 00:39:24,829 --> 00:39:24,060 it's amazing but at the same time I'm 980 00:39:26,870 --> 00:39:24,839 like 981 00:39:30,349 --> 00:39:26,880 if this is something you want to do 982 00:39:32,510 --> 00:39:30,359 you've earned it now like you you helped 983 00:39:34,790 --> 00:39:32,520 me you researched you wrote an episode 984 00:39:36,890 --> 00:39:34,800 why don't you go try it yourself and see 985 00:39:39,770 --> 00:39:36,900 where that goes spread your wings as it 986 00:39:42,349 --> 00:39:39,780 were so yeah if Shannon hadn't really 987 00:39:44,630 --> 00:39:42,359 inspired me I don't know if I ever would 988 00:39:47,210 --> 00:39:44,640 have truly started the podcast she's 989 00:39:49,910 --> 00:39:47,220 also the publisher of my books so I have 990 00:39:51,650 --> 00:39:49,920 to thank her for that as well so yeah if 991 00:39:53,930 --> 00:39:51,660 you have that person who truly inspires 992 00:39:56,030 --> 00:39:53,940 you reach out to him and say how can I 993 00:39:58,430 --> 00:39:56,040 try to do this too 994 00:39:59,750 --> 00:39:58,440 yeah absolutely absolutely I couldn't 995 00:40:01,910 --> 00:39:59,760 agree more 996 00:40:04,190 --> 00:40:01,920 so you actually keep up a pretty 997 00:40:06,349 --> 00:40:04,200 Relentless Pace with your podcast I know 998 00:40:08,089 --> 00:40:06,359 you recently had an ear injury that had 999 00:40:10,130 --> 00:40:08,099 you down for the count and it caused you 1000 00:40:11,990 --> 00:40:10,140 to miss posting an episode which is 1001 00:40:13,970 --> 00:40:12,000 something that you literally never do 1002 00:40:16,790 --> 00:40:13,980 which I give you major props for because 1003 00:40:19,069 --> 00:40:16,800 I know that that is not easy so how do 1004 00:40:21,109 --> 00:40:19,079 you do that what is a typical day look 1005 00:40:26,630 --> 00:40:21,119 like for you 1006 00:40:29,990 --> 00:40:26,640 oh boy my fiance probably won't enjoy me 1007 00:40:33,410 --> 00:40:30,000 telling this because it takes up every 1008 00:40:35,569 --> 00:40:33,420 free moment of my time forget going to 1009 00:40:38,750 --> 00:40:35,579 the movies or going out to dinner or 1010 00:40:41,810 --> 00:40:38,760 stuff like that like podcasting and UFOs 1011 00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:41,820 I live breathe and sleep in but I also 1012 00:40:47,050 --> 00:40:44,160 absolutely love it and I do have a 1013 00:40:50,089 --> 00:40:47,060 supportive partner who helps me and 1014 00:40:52,910 --> 00:40:50,099 inspires me and whatnot as well so that 1015 00:40:56,150 --> 00:40:52,920 helps tremendously but at the same time 1016 00:40:59,510 --> 00:40:56,160 I look at it as a job I just moved to a 1017 00:41:01,730 --> 00:40:59,520 new country I had a very stable job when 1018 00:41:04,370 --> 00:41:01,740 I lived in New York City and that was 1019 00:41:07,790 --> 00:41:04,380 gone the moment I moved literally across 1020 00:41:10,730 --> 00:41:07,800 the world and the this is what I do I'm 1021 00:41:13,250 --> 00:41:10,740 now a full-time podcaster and trying to 1022 00:41:15,050 --> 00:41:13,260 make that work for me and it's not easy 1023 00:41:17,810 --> 00:41:15,060 I'm not gonna lie sometimes it's good 1024 00:41:20,990 --> 00:41:17,820 sometimes it's horrible just like this 1025 00:41:23,510 --> 00:41:21,000 kind of gig world we live in now but I 1026 00:41:26,089 --> 00:41:23,520 look at it as wake up have my coffee 1027 00:41:29,390 --> 00:41:26,099 work the nine to five I'm immediately 1028 00:41:31,609 --> 00:41:29,400 doing my emails and my research or 1029 00:41:34,490 --> 00:41:31,619 trying to get a week or two ahead on the 1030 00:41:36,589 --> 00:41:34,500 podcast and figure out like it you know 1031 00:41:38,569 --> 00:41:36,599 it's like he's seen a puzzle together I 1032 00:41:40,310 --> 00:41:38,579 have an interview on this day but my 1033 00:41:42,349 --> 00:41:40,320 episode releases this day so that can't 1034 00:41:44,349 --> 00:41:42,359 be next week's episode and it is it's 1035 00:41:47,329 --> 00:41:44,359 like just trying to piece this 1036 00:41:49,670 --> 00:41:47,339 unsolvable puzzle together sometimes but 1037 00:41:52,430 --> 00:41:49,680 I did I had an injury recently that 1038 00:41:54,950 --> 00:41:52,440 stopped everything and that's real life 1039 00:41:56,450 --> 00:41:54,960 I never missed a single episode since I 1040 00:41:58,730 --> 00:41:56,460 started the show like you mentioned but 1041 00:42:01,609 --> 00:41:58,740 it happened because I was injured I 1042 00:42:04,930 --> 00:42:01,619 injured my ears which is literally what 1043 00:42:08,329 --> 00:42:04,940 I used to podcast so I couldn't do that 1044 00:42:09,950 --> 00:42:08,339 and sometimes life just slaps in the 1045 00:42:12,530 --> 00:42:09,960 face and you have to deal with it that's 1046 00:42:14,450 --> 00:42:12,540 bound to happen too so yeah I guess 1047 00:42:18,650 --> 00:42:14,460 that's my long-winded way of saying it's 1048 00:42:21,050 --> 00:42:18,660 not like easy but it's a job and I look 1049 00:42:23,089 --> 00:42:21,060 at it that way but I also love my job 1050 00:42:26,210 --> 00:42:23,099 and if you can love your job there's 1051 00:42:30,230 --> 00:42:26,220 literally nothing better in life I feel 1052 00:42:33,589 --> 00:42:30,240 and as long as I put the time and effort 1053 00:42:35,390 --> 00:42:33,599 in and people appreciate it I continue I 1054 00:42:37,849 --> 00:42:35,400 can continue to work that job that I 1055 00:42:39,829 --> 00:42:37,859 love to do will it last forever I don't 1056 00:42:41,510 --> 00:42:39,839 know who knows what tomorrow will bring 1057 00:42:43,970 --> 00:42:41,520 and I kind of look at it that way too 1058 00:42:46,370 --> 00:42:43,980 like this could all end tomorrow why not 1059 00:42:49,310 --> 00:42:46,380 just have fun with it while I can while 1060 00:42:51,829 --> 00:42:49,320 also working super hard for too many 1061 00:42:53,510 --> 00:42:51,839 hours to try to create the best product 1062 00:42:56,030 --> 00:42:53,520 that I can to put out there for people 1063 00:42:58,250 --> 00:42:56,040 and show people that the UFO topic is 1064 00:42:59,990 --> 00:42:58,260 worth the time and effort and quality 1065 00:43:02,210 --> 00:43:00,000 that people like you and I put into 1066 00:43:05,150 --> 00:43:02,220 these things and clearly people do 1067 00:43:07,309 --> 00:43:05,160 appreciate that so yeah it's a job I 1068 00:43:09,050 --> 00:43:07,319 guess that's my really long-winded way 1069 00:43:11,210 --> 00:43:09,060 of saying this is a job treated like 1070 00:43:12,829 --> 00:43:11,220 that and and enjoy it along the way and 1071 00:43:15,109 --> 00:43:12,839 you'll be happy 1072 00:43:17,690 --> 00:43:15,119 absolutely I mean it is really hard work 1073 00:43:19,250 --> 00:43:17,700 I think people have this misconception 1074 00:43:21,349 --> 00:43:19,260 that you know you and I we talk for 1075 00:43:23,150 --> 00:43:21,359 about an hour and then what I like just 1076 00:43:25,309 --> 00:43:23,160 talk some intro music and put it up and 1077 00:43:26,809 --> 00:43:25,319 we're good it's so like I can't even 1078 00:43:28,550 --> 00:43:26,819 tell you how much more work it is than 1079 00:43:30,589 --> 00:43:28,560 that and Shout out because it sounds 1080 00:43:32,270 --> 00:43:30,599 like you have a very supportive partner 1081 00:43:35,329 --> 00:43:32,280 I have a very supportive partner so 1082 00:43:37,670 --> 00:43:35,339 shout out to Partners who allow us to 1083 00:43:41,450 --> 00:43:37,680 pursue our passions I got married in 1084 00:43:44,510 --> 00:43:41,460 February and I was working up till the 1085 00:43:46,730 --> 00:43:44,520 day before not every whole week long 1086 00:43:48,470 --> 00:43:46,740 days and then immediately as soon as it 1087 00:43:50,630 --> 00:43:48,480 was over there was no honeymoon it was 1088 00:43:53,569 --> 00:43:50,640 just back to work and I'm just so 1089 00:43:55,010 --> 00:43:53,579 grateful to my husband he recognizes 1090 00:43:57,349 --> 00:43:55,020 where I am right now with the podcast 1091 00:43:59,210 --> 00:43:57,359 and we're gonna take that honeymoon at 1092 00:44:00,710 --> 00:43:59,220 some point but right now he's just 1093 00:44:03,230 --> 00:44:00,720 understands that this is where my focus 1094 00:44:05,150 --> 00:44:03,240 is and man how lucky are we to have 1095 00:44:08,329 --> 00:44:05,160 partners that that support us in that 1096 00:44:09,770 --> 00:44:08,339 way extremely lucky and I don't take for 1097 00:44:12,770 --> 00:44:09,780 that for granted I know there's people 1098 00:44:14,870 --> 00:44:12,780 out there you know who are into this 1099 00:44:16,910 --> 00:44:14,880 stuff and may not have someone who 1100 00:44:19,609 --> 00:44:16,920 supports them but at the same time if 1101 00:44:21,770 --> 00:44:19,619 this is what you love to do and this is 1102 00:44:23,870 --> 00:44:21,780 who you are and you find this topic 1103 00:44:26,450 --> 00:44:23,880 interesting no one can take that away 1104 00:44:29,030 --> 00:44:26,460 from you do what you want with it write 1105 00:44:30,710 --> 00:44:29,040 a book start a podcast or just be a part 1106 00:44:33,470 --> 00:44:30,720 of the community and give your thoughts 1107 00:44:35,630 --> 00:44:33,480 and theories and opinions online it's 1108 00:44:37,730 --> 00:44:35,640 great so yeah while you and I are very 1109 00:44:40,430 --> 00:44:37,740 lucky to have people like that we both 1110 00:44:41,950 --> 00:44:40,440 know that not everyone is as lucky but 1111 00:44:45,349 --> 00:44:41,960 at the end of the day we're all 1112 00:44:48,109 --> 00:44:45,359 hopefully supporting one another as well 1113 00:44:49,609 --> 00:44:48,119 yeah again I'm a cheerleader for anyone 1114 00:44:53,150 --> 00:44:49,619 out there who wants to get involved in 1115 00:44:55,550 --> 00:44:53,160 this super weird and frustrating topic 1116 00:44:58,010 --> 00:44:55,560 that you and I decided to go down the uh 1117 00:45:00,349 --> 00:44:58,020 the proverbial rabbit hole with there we 1118 00:45:01,849 --> 00:45:00,359 go I knew I could fit in there I knew I 1119 00:45:03,950 --> 00:45:01,859 could fit it in there somewhere I paid 1120 00:45:07,069 --> 00:45:03,960 him for that now 1121 00:45:09,170 --> 00:45:07,079 hey so it's inevitable when you put your 1122 00:45:10,609 --> 00:45:09,180 work out into the world that people 1123 00:45:13,309 --> 00:45:10,619 start feeling like they have the license 1124 00:45:16,790 --> 00:45:13,319 to say just literally anything they want 1125 00:45:18,589 --> 00:45:16,800 both about you and two you look in the 1126 00:45:21,470 --> 00:45:18,599 more of an impact you're making the more 1127 00:45:23,390 --> 00:45:21,480 those trolls seem to Target you so how 1128 00:45:24,710 --> 00:45:23,400 do you deal with the haters and how do 1129 00:45:26,510 --> 00:45:24,720 you protect your mental health while 1130 00:45:29,750 --> 00:45:26,520 doing this work 1131 00:45:31,970 --> 00:45:29,760 when I first started my work books 1132 00:45:34,190 --> 00:45:31,980 podcasting whatever it was hard I'm not 1133 00:45:36,589 --> 00:45:34,200 gonna lie I'm a very sensitive guy I can 1134 00:45:39,470 --> 00:45:36,599 say that up front I wear my heart on a 1135 00:45:42,650 --> 00:45:39,480 sleeve I went to school for theater so 1136 00:45:44,569 --> 00:45:42,660 clearly I'm a very emotional person and 1137 00:45:47,030 --> 00:45:44,579 it was hard there were times where I 1138 00:45:50,030 --> 00:45:47,040 would obsess over one comment on a 1139 00:45:52,550 --> 00:45:50,040 YouTube video or you know someone saying 1140 00:45:54,710 --> 00:45:52,560 wow could your voice be any higher dude 1141 00:45:56,809 --> 00:45:54,720 like come on like when are you gonna go 1142 00:45:58,490 --> 00:45:56,819 through puberty there and now I can 1143 00:46:01,430 --> 00:45:58,500 laugh about stuff like that because you 1144 00:46:04,849 --> 00:46:01,440 do as time goes on there will always be 1145 00:46:07,790 --> 00:46:04,859 people out there who either are insecure 1146 00:46:10,730 --> 00:46:07,800 in their own abilities to research these 1147 00:46:13,490 --> 00:46:10,740 topics and convey that to the public or 1148 00:46:15,050 --> 00:46:13,500 it's just pure jealousy or there's a 1149 00:46:16,490 --> 00:46:15,060 void in their life that they need to 1150 00:46:19,370 --> 00:46:16,500 fill with trying to make other people 1151 00:46:21,050 --> 00:46:19,380 feel bad I mean that's psychology 101 we 1152 00:46:23,329 --> 00:46:21,060 don't have to dissect that for anyone 1153 00:46:25,250 --> 00:46:23,339 and it does grow the more exposure you 1154 00:46:28,069 --> 00:46:25,260 get obviously and it's different for 1155 00:46:30,410 --> 00:46:28,079 everyone so the way I deal with it is at 1156 00:46:33,589 --> 00:46:30,420 this point I just ignore it and look 1157 00:46:35,270 --> 00:46:33,599 like I posted a video a UFO video on 1158 00:46:37,309 --> 00:46:35,280 Twitter the other day to give people's 1159 00:46:39,410 --> 00:46:37,319 thoughts classic blunder I saw that 1160 00:46:41,569 --> 00:46:39,420 that's so funny I'll never make that 1161 00:46:44,690 --> 00:46:41,579 mistake again Kelly people just came out 1162 00:46:48,050 --> 00:46:44,700 of the woodwork to attack me personally 1163 00:46:51,410 --> 00:46:48,060 to say I was an idiot this video sucks 1164 00:46:52,790 --> 00:46:51,420 like blah blah blah and for me it comes 1165 00:46:54,530 --> 00:46:52,800 down to something Stanton Friedman 1166 00:46:57,230 --> 00:46:54,540 always said and that's when people can't 1167 00:46:59,030 --> 00:46:57,240 attack the data they attack the person 1168 00:47:01,250 --> 00:46:59,040 and a lot of the time I think that's 1169 00:47:04,430 --> 00:47:01,260 what this truly boils down to if someone 1170 00:47:07,250 --> 00:47:04,440 can't really wrap their head around what 1171 00:47:10,190 --> 00:47:07,260 you're saying or simply disagree with 1172 00:47:11,930 --> 00:47:10,200 you they will go for the jugular whether 1173 00:47:13,849 --> 00:47:11,940 it's your looks whether it's your voice 1174 00:47:16,130 --> 00:47:13,859 whether it's whatever you put out there 1175 00:47:19,190 --> 00:47:16,140 into the world someone will always find 1176 00:47:20,870 --> 00:47:19,200 a way to try to knock you down and I've 1177 00:47:24,650 --> 00:47:20,880 gotten to the point and I know this is 1178 00:47:26,510 --> 00:47:24,660 easy to say is to ignore the haters but 1179 00:47:28,670 --> 00:47:26,520 we both know it's not that easy like 1180 00:47:31,609 --> 00:47:28,680 these things can always psychologically 1181 00:47:33,710 --> 00:47:31,619 and emotionally affect you so at this 1182 00:47:38,329 --> 00:47:33,720 point instead of responding to things 1183 00:47:40,490 --> 00:47:38,339 like that I simply move on and move up I 1184 00:47:42,770 --> 00:47:40,500 got that from Kevin Day the chief radar 1185 00:47:44,150 --> 00:47:42,780 operator there's on the Tic Tac he said 1186 00:47:47,450 --> 00:47:44,160 it in some interview and it really stuck 1187 00:47:50,809 --> 00:47:47,460 with me I'm like I'm too busy to care 1188 00:47:53,630 --> 00:47:50,819 about what this troll on Twitter thinks 1189 00:47:57,170 --> 00:47:53,640 about me as an individual there's no 1190 00:48:00,109 --> 00:47:57,180 time for that this is a rapidly except 1191 00:48:03,470 --> 00:48:00,119 accelerating World everything's moving 1192 00:48:06,109 --> 00:48:03,480 so quick and this topic of UFOs is 1193 00:48:08,990 --> 00:48:06,119 becoming more a part of our Lives more 1194 00:48:11,390 --> 00:48:09,000 than ever there's no time anymore for 1195 00:48:13,370 --> 00:48:11,400 trivial stuff like I have work to do I 1196 00:48:15,410 --> 00:48:13,380 don't know about you but I have work to 1197 00:48:18,589 --> 00:48:15,420 do so I'm just going to continue to keep 1198 00:48:20,750 --> 00:48:18,599 doing my work for every one person who 1199 00:48:23,510 --> 00:48:20,760 might say something bad about you as a 1200 00:48:26,270 --> 00:48:23,520 person or as a podcaster or a UFO 1201 00:48:28,730 --> 00:48:26,280 researcher there's a hundred people on 1202 00:48:32,089 --> 00:48:28,740 the other side who do support you and 1203 00:48:34,609 --> 00:48:32,099 all we can do is amplify that instead of 1204 00:48:37,250 --> 00:48:34,619 you know giving these people these 1205 00:48:38,569 --> 00:48:37,260 negative people any sort of attention in 1206 00:48:41,750 --> 00:48:38,579 my opinion 1207 00:48:45,650 --> 00:48:41,760 yeah it is hard because I have gotten to 1208 00:48:47,329 --> 00:48:45,660 the point where 90 of the time I have no 1209 00:48:49,010 --> 00:48:47,339 emotional reaction I'm just like well 1210 00:48:51,950 --> 00:48:49,020 that person was clearly having a bad day 1211 00:48:53,150 --> 00:48:51,960 and I move on with my life but you know 1212 00:48:55,309 --> 00:48:53,160 what it's like you're getting these 1213 00:48:57,430 --> 00:48:55,319 notifications and emails and stuff on 1214 00:49:00,230 --> 00:48:57,440 YouTube like constantly there's no way 1215 00:49:01,550 --> 00:49:00,240 to just completely check out of it 1216 00:49:02,930 --> 00:49:01,560 because we also have to monitor what's 1217 00:49:04,730 --> 00:49:02,940 going on because it's not like I just 1218 00:49:07,670 --> 00:49:04,740 disregard every negative comment if 1219 00:49:09,530 --> 00:49:07,680 people have constructive things to say I 1220 00:49:11,150 --> 00:49:09,540 really take that to heart and I need to 1221 00:49:14,089 --> 00:49:11,160 support those negative comments to know 1222 00:49:15,890 --> 00:49:14,099 right but and sometimes those things pop 1223 00:49:17,870 --> 00:49:15,900 up you're just you're having a bad day 1224 00:49:19,190 --> 00:49:17,880 you're already feeling kind of crummy 1225 00:49:21,950 --> 00:49:19,200 about yourself the way we all do 1226 00:49:23,930 --> 00:49:21,960 sometimes and it just hits you wrong and 1227 00:49:25,609 --> 00:49:23,940 it's like I wonder if this person really 1228 00:49:27,470 --> 00:49:25,619 knew that they were gonna mess up my 1229 00:49:29,030 --> 00:49:27,480 whole day by letting me know that my 1230 00:49:31,609 --> 00:49:29,040 voice is the most annoying sound they've 1231 00:49:34,790 --> 00:49:31,619 ever heard in their life it's just yeah 1232 00:49:37,130 --> 00:49:34,800 and it's like I again it's easy for me 1233 00:49:38,990 --> 00:49:37,140 to say ignore it but like that's not how 1234 00:49:40,730 --> 00:49:39,000 we're built that's just not the world we 1235 00:49:44,329 --> 00:49:40,740 live in especially with the internet and 1236 00:49:46,250 --> 00:49:44,339 social media so yeah all I can say is 1237 00:49:49,550 --> 00:49:46,260 just keep doing your work keep your head 1238 00:49:51,829 --> 00:49:49,560 down move forward and embrace the 1239 00:49:53,750 --> 00:49:51,839 positivity like we don't get that enough 1240 00:49:56,650 --> 00:49:53,760 in the world and that's why I love the 1241 00:50:01,309 --> 00:49:56,660 podcasting world because it is very rare 1242 00:50:03,890 --> 00:50:01,319 to have someone really be negative at 1243 00:50:06,349 --> 00:50:03,900 least in my experience it happens you 1244 00:50:07,730 --> 00:50:06,359 get a bad review or maybe a comment on 1245 00:50:09,530 --> 00:50:07,740 Twitter every now and again but again 1246 00:50:11,390 --> 00:50:09,540 for every one of those there's people 1247 00:50:13,790 --> 00:50:11,400 who truly appreciate the work that you 1248 00:50:17,089 --> 00:50:13,800 and I do and many others out there and 1249 00:50:19,010 --> 00:50:17,099 as long as we use that as fuel instead 1250 00:50:20,450 --> 00:50:19,020 of the negativity I think we'll all be 1251 00:50:21,950 --> 00:50:20,460 better off and we'll all be better off 1252 00:50:24,950 --> 00:50:21,960 mentally too 1253 00:50:26,270 --> 00:50:24,960 yeah no absolutely and I also think 1254 00:50:28,010 --> 00:50:26,280 you know the thing you have to realize 1255 00:50:30,470 --> 00:50:28,020 too is you get that one negative comment 1256 00:50:32,329 --> 00:50:30,480 about an episode or something but you 1257 00:50:34,910 --> 00:50:32,339 realize that literally tens of thousands 1258 00:50:36,950 --> 00:50:34,920 of other people have listened to it and 1259 00:50:39,050 --> 00:50:36,960 the people who loved it don't reach out 1260 00:50:40,730 --> 00:50:39,060 as much it's just not an instinct and 1261 00:50:42,170 --> 00:50:40,740 which is totally fine people are busy 1262 00:50:43,550 --> 00:50:42,180 they've got stuff to do I think it's 1263 00:50:46,309 --> 00:50:43,560 people who are bored who end up leaving 1264 00:50:48,829 --> 00:50:46,319 these nasty messages anyways but maybe 1265 00:50:50,630 --> 00:50:48,839 we can give anybody who's listening of 1266 00:50:51,950 --> 00:50:50,640 homework assignment don't do this from 1267 00:50:54,410 --> 00:50:51,960 your rides podcast we're not like 1268 00:50:57,650 --> 00:50:54,420 soliciting reviews here but if there is 1269 00:50:59,750 --> 00:50:57,660 any kind of a Creator or a podcaster or 1270 00:51:02,089 --> 00:50:59,760 a musician or somebody who you know is 1271 00:51:03,710 --> 00:51:02,099 working in a creative space whose work 1272 00:51:05,390 --> 00:51:03,720 you really enjoy and you've never 1273 00:51:07,490 --> 00:51:05,400 reached out to them to let them know 1274 00:51:08,750 --> 00:51:07,500 that reach out to one of those people 1275 00:51:10,309 --> 00:51:08,760 and just let them know that you 1276 00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:10,319 appreciate their work because I think 1277 00:51:14,329 --> 00:51:12,480 that getting those heartfelt messages 1278 00:51:15,950 --> 00:51:14,339 from somebody who took the time out of 1279 00:51:18,290 --> 00:51:15,960 their day it really does make all the 1280 00:51:20,569 --> 00:51:18,300 difference ah it can change everything 1281 00:51:22,730 --> 00:51:20,579 and that's such a good point I find 1282 00:51:24,530 --> 00:51:22,740 myself not doing that either like 1283 00:51:27,589 --> 00:51:24,540 reaching out to the podcast I listen to 1284 00:51:29,809 --> 00:51:27,599 or writing a review so you know preach 1285 00:51:31,609 --> 00:51:29,819 what preach preach what you you know 1286 00:51:33,950 --> 00:51:31,619 what's the saying practice what you 1287 00:51:37,670 --> 00:51:33,960 preach yes there we go thank you oh God 1288 00:51:38,870 --> 00:51:37,680 I'd imagine that no you got it yeah 1289 00:51:40,190 --> 00:51:38,880 because I think that you listen to 1290 00:51:41,930 --> 00:51:40,200 something you're like oh my gosh this is 1291 00:51:43,190 --> 00:51:41,940 so awesome this person clearly knows 1292 00:51:45,890 --> 00:51:43,200 that it's awesome I don't need to tell 1293 00:51:48,589 --> 00:51:45,900 them but sometimes we do need to hear it 1294 00:51:50,030 --> 00:51:48,599 we creatives are a sensitive group yes 1295 00:51:53,809 --> 00:51:50,040 we are yeah 1296 00:51:55,490 --> 00:51:53,819 so when you look at the podcast what are 1297 00:51:59,329 --> 00:51:55,500 you most proud of 1298 00:52:01,609 --> 00:51:59,339 hmm I guess that I'm most proud I'll put 1299 00:52:04,990 --> 00:52:01,619 it this way I'm most proud that from the 1300 00:52:08,150 --> 00:52:05,000 very beginning I have basically 1301 00:52:10,790 --> 00:52:08,160 started something from scratch not 1302 00:52:14,390 --> 00:52:10,800 knowing where it would go and just 1303 00:52:17,030 --> 00:52:14,400 continuing to do it it's so easy to just 1304 00:52:18,829 --> 00:52:17,040 give up on things in life we all do it 1305 00:52:20,870 --> 00:52:18,839 all the time I've done it in other 1306 00:52:24,349 --> 00:52:20,880 aspects of my life but with the podcast 1307 00:52:25,849 --> 00:52:24,359 I've had really highs and lows there 1308 00:52:27,770 --> 00:52:25,859 have been times I wanted to stop doing 1309 00:52:29,690 --> 00:52:27,780 it there have been times where it took 1310 00:52:32,750 --> 00:52:29,700 up too much time in my life or I just 1311 00:52:35,569 --> 00:52:32,760 wasn't having a good month and I just 1312 00:52:37,250 --> 00:52:35,579 wanted to quit but I never did and it 1313 00:52:39,950 --> 00:52:37,260 was truly like the support that I got 1314 00:52:43,569 --> 00:52:39,960 that kept me going so I would say I'm 1315 00:52:46,730 --> 00:52:43,579 most proud that it's still happening 1316 00:52:49,190 --> 00:52:46,740 like as simple as that there's not one 1317 00:52:51,049 --> 00:52:49,200 episode that I'm most proud of or or 1318 00:52:52,790 --> 00:52:51,059 anything like that it's just the fact 1319 00:52:56,390 --> 00:52:52,800 that people still 1320 00:52:58,309 --> 00:52:56,400 care what I have to say about this topic 1321 00:53:01,250 --> 00:52:58,319 and continue to take that Journey with 1322 00:53:03,650 --> 00:53:01,260 me because it's not an easy journey and 1323 00:53:05,930 --> 00:53:03,660 we change our minds all the time and 1324 00:53:09,349 --> 00:53:05,940 there's been times where I just want to 1325 00:53:12,290 --> 00:53:09,359 quit everything like not talk about UFOs 1326 00:53:15,170 --> 00:53:12,300 anymore but something always kept me 1327 00:53:17,210 --> 00:53:15,180 going and I think it's that Curiosity to 1328 00:53:19,609 --> 00:53:17,220 truly know that the world is much bigger 1329 00:53:22,910 --> 00:53:19,619 than you and I and what we think we know 1330 00:53:24,589 --> 00:53:22,920 about it and it's clear it's clear in 1331 00:53:26,809 --> 00:53:24,599 the people who reach out to you and I 1332 00:53:29,450 --> 00:53:26,819 it's clear by the numbers that we see 1333 00:53:31,790 --> 00:53:29,460 that are growing on all podcasts and all 1334 00:53:34,190 --> 00:53:31,800 YouTube channels that cover these topics 1335 00:53:36,049 --> 00:53:34,200 and that's inspiring and that's what 1336 00:53:38,150 --> 00:53:36,059 keeps me going is the interest is 1337 00:53:40,910 --> 00:53:38,160 growing and growing and that's going to 1338 00:53:43,849 --> 00:53:40,920 lead to more thoughts theories and yeah 1339 00:53:45,890 --> 00:53:43,859 yeah it's an exciting time to be 1340 00:53:47,990 --> 00:53:45,900 interested in UFOs and I can't wait to 1341 00:53:50,690 --> 00:53:48,000 see where it goes next 1342 00:53:52,549 --> 00:53:50,700 that's amazing and where do you see 1343 00:53:54,770 --> 00:53:52,559 yourself in your work going in the next 1344 00:53:56,930 --> 00:53:54,780 few years are there particular things 1345 00:53:58,549 --> 00:53:56,940 that you still want to accomplish or new 1346 00:54:00,710 --> 00:53:58,559 projects that you'd like to take on what 1347 00:54:02,750 --> 00:54:00,720 do you have coming up 1348 00:54:05,210 --> 00:54:02,760 there's a couple projects unfortunately 1349 00:54:07,370 --> 00:54:05,220 I can't say too much about welcome to 1350 00:54:10,910 --> 00:54:07,380 the field of ufology right I can't talk 1351 00:54:14,829 --> 00:54:10,920 about this it's gonna happen I swear um 1352 00:54:18,170 --> 00:54:14,839 yeah trust me bro did you trust me bro 1353 00:54:21,109 --> 00:54:18,180 disclosures right around the corner man 1354 00:54:23,210 --> 00:54:21,119 um we laugh because we have to this 1355 00:54:25,430 --> 00:54:23,220 field yeah utterly ridiculous sometimes 1356 00:54:28,130 --> 00:54:25,440 I have a few projects that are somewhere 1357 00:54:31,549 --> 00:54:28,140 in the skies adjacent that I'm working 1358 00:54:34,910 --> 00:54:31,559 on right now both in book form and 1359 00:54:37,370 --> 00:54:34,920 television form all different mediums so 1360 00:54:40,010 --> 00:54:37,380 always working on stuff like that I am 1361 00:54:41,990 --> 00:54:40,020 working actually on a brand new book the 1362 00:54:44,630 --> 00:54:42,000 work never stops the first question 1363 00:54:46,250 --> 00:54:44,640 after this one came out what a week ago 1364 00:54:49,790 --> 00:54:46,260 was when's your next book coming out 1365 00:54:51,710 --> 00:54:49,800 like come on right give me a minute yeah 1366 00:54:53,390 --> 00:54:51,720 the world we live in but I have been 1367 00:54:55,670 --> 00:54:53,400 working on another book for almost two 1368 00:54:57,650 --> 00:54:55,680 and a half years now and I'm getting 1369 00:55:00,170 --> 00:54:57,660 closer and closer to being done I feel 1370 00:55:02,930 --> 00:55:00,180 like it's gonna be my Opus it's epic 1371 00:55:05,510 --> 00:55:02,940 it's you it's sweeping it's deeply 1372 00:55:07,190 --> 00:55:05,520 deeply personal for me unlike my first 1373 00:55:10,630 --> 00:55:07,200 two books which are personal obviously 1374 00:55:13,910 --> 00:55:10,640 but this one really came from my heart 1375 00:55:16,309 --> 00:55:13,920 and I'm terrified to put it out into the 1376 00:55:18,170 --> 00:55:16,319 world but also excited so yeah that's 1377 00:55:20,450 --> 00:55:18,180 what I'm working on right now continued 1378 00:55:22,549 --> 00:55:20,460 research on my new book and yeah I hope 1379 00:55:24,829 --> 00:55:22,559 the podcast isn't going anywhere as far 1380 00:55:26,809 --> 00:55:24,839 as I know someone knows different let me 1381 00:55:29,630 --> 00:55:26,819 know but I could see me to do this show 1382 00:55:32,329 --> 00:55:29,640 every week and learn every week and yeah 1383 00:55:35,150 --> 00:55:32,339 diving a bit more into the woo you know 1384 00:55:38,089 --> 00:55:35,160 I had Alex Dietrich on recently the Navy 1385 00:55:40,130 --> 00:55:38,099 pilot I've had all the government people 1386 00:55:43,250 --> 00:55:40,140 that we've all heard of from the past 1387 00:55:46,370 --> 00:55:43,260 few years and it got kind of boring for 1388 00:55:49,069 --> 00:55:46,380 me in like two Technical and too 1389 00:55:50,809 --> 00:55:49,079 government oriented and I will be 1390 00:55:52,910 --> 00:55:50,819 forever grateful for those interviews I 1391 00:55:55,370 --> 00:55:52,920 had but I want to go back to the weird 1392 00:55:58,190 --> 00:55:55,380 stuff so I'm starting to do a lot more 1393 00:56:00,109 --> 00:55:58,200 episodes of the show that really embrace 1394 00:56:03,770 --> 00:56:00,119 the weirder aspects like I mentioned 1395 00:56:07,190 --> 00:56:03,780 earlier and look at some of the really 1396 00:56:09,049 --> 00:56:07,200 weird close encounter cases and UFO 1397 00:56:11,030 --> 00:56:09,059 waves of the past and what it could 1398 00:56:13,730 --> 00:56:11,040 possibly tell us about some of the stuff 1399 00:56:16,849 --> 00:56:13,740 we're dealing with now so yeah again 1400 00:56:19,430 --> 00:56:16,859 doing a million things all at once 1401 00:56:20,630 --> 00:56:19,440 driving myself and my partner crazy so 1402 00:56:23,270 --> 00:56:20,640 yeah 1403 00:56:24,530 --> 00:56:23,280 well that's incredible I know we're all 1404 00:56:26,870 --> 00:56:24,540 looking forward to seeing that stuff 1405 00:56:28,849 --> 00:56:26,880 come out Ryan I just have so much 1406 00:56:30,890 --> 00:56:28,859 respect for you and your work it's 1407 00:56:33,950 --> 00:56:30,900 always such a delight to talk to you let 1408 00:56:35,930 --> 00:56:33,960 everybody know where they can find you 1409 00:56:37,849 --> 00:56:35,940 thank you Kelly no it was my pleasure 1410 00:56:40,250 --> 00:56:37,859 you're one of The Shining voices in this 1411 00:56:42,349 --> 00:56:40,260 field right now so again anytime you and 1412 00:56:45,109 --> 00:56:42,359 I can talk I absolutely Savor those 1413 00:56:47,930 --> 00:56:45,119 moments everything I do is at somewhere 1414 00:56:49,970 --> 00:56:47,940 in the skies.com the new book of which 1415 00:56:53,329 --> 00:56:49,980 you are featured in so I hope people 1416 00:56:55,549 --> 00:56:53,339 will check out your incredible UFO story 1417 00:56:57,829 --> 00:56:55,559 in there thank you thank you for doing 1418 00:57:00,530 --> 00:56:57,839 that it's on Amazon in paperback and 1419 00:57:02,510 --> 00:57:00,540 ebook an audiobook will be coming out 1420 00:57:04,790 --> 00:57:02,520 hopefully in the very near future my 1421 00:57:07,309 --> 00:57:04,800 Publishers are working on that right now 1422 00:57:09,710 --> 00:57:07,319 so yeah you can find it on Amazon or 1423 00:57:11,630 --> 00:57:09,720 wherever you get your books and yeah you 1424 00:57:14,150 --> 00:57:11,640 can catch me Ancient Aliens the TV show 1425 00:57:15,950 --> 00:57:14,160 and right now the History Channel I 1426 00:57:18,829 --> 00:57:15,960 still laugh when I say that because I 1427 00:57:20,930 --> 00:57:18,839 can't believe their 19 seasons in and 1428 00:57:22,790 --> 00:57:20,940 still talking about Ancient Aliens but 1429 00:57:24,890 --> 00:57:22,800 they're doing it and for some reason 1430 00:57:26,930 --> 00:57:24,900 they put my face on there so yeah you 1431 00:57:28,730 --> 00:57:26,940 can watch the current season of that too 1432 00:57:30,170 --> 00:57:28,740 I love seeing you with some of our other 1433 00:57:32,690 --> 00:57:30,180 friends on there I'm always like I know 1434 00:57:34,849 --> 00:57:32,700 him but I get so excited 1435 00:57:37,370 --> 00:57:34,859 it's fun I know I still get messages 1436 00:57:39,530 --> 00:57:37,380 from my mom and stuff being like Oh my 1437 00:57:41,750 --> 00:57:39,540 God you're on TV right now and it's it's 1438 00:57:43,089 --> 00:57:41,760 it never I I can't watch myself I'm one 1439 00:57:47,390 --> 00:57:43,099 of those people who I'm like no 1440 00:57:48,890 --> 00:57:47,400 absolutely not um cool awesome maybe one 1441 00:57:51,109 --> 00:57:48,900 more person learned about the podcast 1442 00:57:53,510 --> 00:57:51,119 that's great but no I will not watch 1443 00:57:55,730 --> 00:57:53,520 myself on each it's not out that's 1444 00:57:58,609 --> 00:57:55,740 awesome well Ryan it's been wonderful 1445 00:58:02,470 --> 00:57:58,619 thanks so much for coming on my honor